Plant Database forum: Just me, confused again ...

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Name: Lin
East Central Florida (Zone 9b)

Region: United States of America Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Procrastinator
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plantladylin
Nov 11, 2017 2:01 PM CST
A few questions and musings about database listings for a couple of Aquilegia (Columbine). First, let me say that I don't know a thing about Columbines and have never even seen one of those beautiful flowers in person because they do not grow anywhere near where I live but I enjoy reading about different plants and when browsing the database this morning I came across some beautiful Columbines and began reading more about them which led to a bit of confusion regarding two of the Aquilegia series listed in our database. For one series listing, the format appears very nice (as shown below) and I wonder if all series could appear as such?

Trade name information:
Series: Songbird™
Trade Name:
Origami:
Also sold as: Aquilegia _______ (in Britain)

Ok, my main questions:

SONGBIRD Series: Should a Series name always be included as part of the Cultivar name? I noticed that many of the cultivars have Songbird included as part of the cultivar name: https://garden.org/plants/sear...

but it's not included in these three:
Columbine (Aquilegia 'Blue Jay')
Columbine (Aquilegia 'Goldfinch')
Columbine (Aquilegia 'Nightingale') - sold as 'Nightingale' (in North America)

And I think these may be duplicates:
Columbine (Aquilegia 'Redwing') - should be two words, 'Red Wing' (North America)
Columbine (Aquilegia 'Cardinal') (British name)

This is the page where I found information for the Songbird Series: http://grahamrice.com/plants/a...


ORIGAMI Series: The database listings show the series name as part of the name but with none have the quote marks, denoting cultivar. Are they not considered cultivar names? : https://garden.org/plants/sear...

This is the page where I found information for the Origami series: http://grahamrice.com/plants/a...


SWAN/STATE Series: To confuse things even more ... Apparently the Swan Series and State Series are one and the same; known as the Swan Series in North America and State Series in Great Britain.

This is the page where I found information for the Swan/State Series: http://grahamrice.com/plants/a...

It appears that with the Swan and State series, we may have duplicates in the database. I haven't had a chance to check all of them but a few appear to be duplicates:

Columbine (Aquilegia 'Swan White')


Columbine (Aquilegia 'Swan Yellow')


Columbine (Aquilegia 'Swan Burgundy and White')


Columbine (Aquilegia 'Swan Rose and White') - No listing for Swan Rose and White

Columbine (Aquilegia 'Swan Blue and White')


OLYMPIA Series: To make things even more baffling; it appears there is only a single plant in the Olympia series, sold in Great Britian as 'Kansas' and in North America as 'Olympia Red and Gold', It's in our database as Columbine (Aquilegia 'Olympia Red and Gold') i

This is the page with the listing for Olympia Series; at the bottom: http://grahamrice.com/plants/a...
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Name: Nora
Castlegar, B. C. Canada (Zone 5b)
Region: Canadian Cat Lover Salvias Xeriscape Roses Organic Gardener
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HemNorth
Nov 11, 2017 2:58 PM CST
What an amazing amount of research, Lin. I'm only sorry you can't grow your own. Sad

I ran into confusion also, when I purchased the Aquilegia Colorado Violet and White. At least that is what the label said. I took photos that I wanted to submit but the Database refused to accept that name. When I tried to enter it, it was rejected because it was already in the Database: Columbine (Aquilegia 'Swan Violet and White').
The Series name is 'Colorado'. It is also sold as Colorado Violet and White or also as Remembrance - (for the Columbine incident in 1999).
The photos are now in the correct place.

Sometime in the future I would like to start a Blog and put in some of the many pictures of Aquilegia that I took while at our Riverview, Robson place. It had been a Nursery for 30 years or more, and there were Aquilegia coming up all over the place.
I just looked at their 1938 catalogue, and one variety is listed as Jucunda. It's not in our Database. I Googled it, and was given images of Aquilegia glandulosa var. jucunda - with gorgeous photos of white and blue Columbines. (Not in our Database). I'll have to do more research as to what to put in which lines of the submission form (I find it very daunting, because I always seem to get something wrong) and then find a suitable Website to corroborate all this. Smiling
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 11, 2017 3:11 PM CST

Plants Admin

I can answer part of your question, Lin. There's a difference between a series and a trade series. If the series name is not followed by a trademark symbol, it may be listed as a series, but the rest of the name (Yellow, White, etc.) is not listed as a trade name. The whole thing (Swan Yellow) is treated simply as a cultivar name.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 11, 2017 3:38 PM CST

Plants Admin

I don't know what this is supposed to represent:

Trade name information:
Series: Songbird™
Trade Name:
Origami:
Also sold as: Aquilegia _______ (in Britain)

It wasn't taken from our database, and it makes no sense. For one thing, Songbird is not a trademarked series name; for another, Origami is a trademarked series name and would never be listed as a trade name.

You asked: "SONGBIRD Series: Should a Series name always be included as part of the Cultivar name? I noticed that many of the cultivars have Songbird included as part of the cultivar name."

An untrademarked series doesn't necessarily have to be included in the name, but when it's followed simply by the name of a color, it does seem necessary. Otherwise, we could have lots of columbines named 'Yellow' or 'White.'

You say: Redwing should be two words, but the accepted cultivar name is one word.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/...

Cardinal is also an accepted name, so I'm not sure why you're saying it's a duplicate.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/...

The two-word Red Wing in your Graham Rice link is cited as another name for Cardinal, not for Redwing.

I have to go feed the fish now. I'll take a look at your other questions when I come back.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 11, 2017 4:39 PM CST

Plants Admin

You asked: "ORIGAMI Series: The database listings show the series name as part of the name but with none have the quote marks, denoting cultivar. Are they not considered cultivar names?"

The link you provided is to your search results, which don't always list the full name of an entry.

https://garden.org/plants/sear...

If you look them up on the "O" page of the Aquilegia cultivar entries, you'll see the full names (Trade series, trade name, cultivar).

https://garden.org/plants/brow...

If you open the entries, you'll see that the cultivar names are enclosed in single quotes.

Columbine (Aquilegia coerulea Origami™ Blue)

Does that answer all of your questions? Your post is so long that I may have missed something. I'll consolidate the Swan/State listings and add also-sold-as names wherever appropriate.

Nora, Aquilegia glandulosa var. jucunda was reclassified as a synonym of Aquilegia glandulosa years ago.
[Last edited by zuzu - Nov 11, 2017 4:45 PM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 11, 2017 5:35 PM CST

Plants Admin

I think I took care of all the extra names and deleted the duplicate entries. Let me know if you find any others, Lin.
Name: Lin
East Central Florida (Zone 9b)

Region: United States of America Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Procrastinator
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plantladylin
Nov 11, 2017 7:01 PM CST
Zuzu, thanks so much for your explanations and taking care of the extra (also sold as) names!

@HemNorth Nora, I bet your area is so beautiful during Columbine season! I can only imagine what the view must look like with those beauties everywhere! Lovey dubby
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Nora
Castlegar, B. C. Canada (Zone 5b)
Region: Canadian Cat Lover Salvias Xeriscape Roses Organic Gardener
Garden Photography Echinacea Butterflies Birds Irises Daylilies
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HemNorth
Nov 21, 2017 2:58 PM CST
@plantladylin - It was a real treat to have a relationship with this property for 30 years. It was an honour to garden there. It was a dynamic Nursery during the 1920's to the '50's, called Riverview. After the passing of key members of the original McDiarmid and Squires owners, It was sold to a young family in the mid '60's, and we bought it in 1983.
It had been let go for more than 20 years, but whenever I made a new garden bed, there was an assortment of plants that would emerge: Foxgloves, Columbines, Forget-Me-Nots, Ox-Eye Daisy, Sea Holly (Eryngium). Also seedlings of Lilacs, Scotch Broom (Cytisus scoparius), Black Walnut (Juglans nigra) and many more.
Here are two photos of the Aquilegia that spring up in the wild garden.
Thumb of 2017-11-21/HemNorth/a8beae


Thumb of 2017-11-21/HemNorth/c128ce

Name: Lin
East Central Florida (Zone 9b)

Region: United States of America Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Procrastinator
Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener Houseplants
Image
plantladylin
Nov 21, 2017 3:17 PM CST
Oh my, those are so beautiful!! Lovey dubby
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Nora
Castlegar, B. C. Canada (Zone 5b)
Region: Canadian Cat Lover Salvias Xeriscape Roses Organic Gardener
Garden Photography Echinacea Butterflies Birds Irises Daylilies
Image
HemNorth
Nov 21, 2017 4:11 PM CST
And thank you, again, plantladylin, and to zuzu, for all the research done, to help us Aquilegia (or Columbine) lovers out. Sometime I'd like to show a gallery of some of these old fashioned, unidentified beauties:
Thumb of 2017-11-21/HemNorth/1bcf46


Thumb of 2017-11-21/HemNorth/1128b6


Thumb of 2017-11-21/HemNorth/670035


Thumb of 2017-11-21/HemNorth/02ff1f


Thumb of 2017-11-21/HemNorth/aeb867

Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Nov 21, 2017 5:04 PM CST

Plants Admin

I would love to see a columbine gallery. You should start a thread in the Perennials Forum and post all of your photos there.
Name: Nora
Castlegar, B. C. Canada (Zone 5b)
Region: Canadian Cat Lover Salvias Xeriscape Roses Organic Gardener
Garden Photography Echinacea Butterflies Birds Irises Daylilies
Image
HemNorth
Nov 22, 2017 3:25 AM CST
Thank you, zuzu. That sounds like a good idea.

I had wanted to enter some photos in the Photo Contest, but haven't felt up to the massive sorting job it can be.
I've been out of things with a bad cough in my chest. Sad When this is all over, I shall try your idea.

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