Plant ID forum: Sugar Maple ID ?

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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 13, 2017 2:26 AM CST
I have a maple tree that I think is a sugar maple, but I don't know what the cultivar name is for the tree.

I'd like to post photos of fall color, but I don't want to add them to the wrong database page.

It has a spreading top growth and has beautiful golden and orange fall color. During the growing season, the foliage is almost a purple color.

Here are a few photos ... not the best, but I hope they will help with identification ... Smiling

Photo of tree just as it is leafing out in spring taken in mid-April. It kind of gives you an idea of the architecture of the tree.

Thumb of 2017-11-13/RoseBlush1/a8a144

Photo after the tree is fully leafed out later in April. The foliage stays this color all season

Thumb of 2017-11-13/RoseBlush1/d37362

New foliage

Thumb of 2017-11-13/RoseBlush1/6a06bf

Fall foliage

Thumb of 2017-11-13/RoseBlush1/31d728




Thank you in advance for your help.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Amanda
KC metro area, Missouri (Zone 6a)
Roses Zinnias Region: Missouri Cat Lover Dog Lover Bookworm
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pepper23
Nov 13, 2017 3:36 AM CST
Pretty sure it's not a sugar maple. I've never seen a sugar maple with purple leaves year round.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 13, 2017 4:09 AM CST
Thank you ... I tip my hat to you.

I was just guessing. All of the other maple descriptions reported the trees as having more of columnar growth habit.

Ok ... what kind of maple is it ?
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Nov 13, 2017 9:11 PM CST
Maybe a Crimson King Norway Maple?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 14, 2017 12:28 AM CST
Daisy ...

I think you may be right.

It has the right habit and foliage color.

The description on the University of Arkansas site says that 'Crimson King' is is one of several maroon-leafed Norway maple clones, but it is by far the most common.

https://www.uaex.edu/yard-gard...
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Nov 14, 2017 3:15 AM CST
Thumbs up
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost
Name: Amanda
KC metro area, Missouri (Zone 6a)
Roses Zinnias Region: Missouri Cat Lover Dog Lover Bookworm
Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: United States of America Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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pepper23
Nov 14, 2017 8:44 AM CST
That was my first thought also but got busy and forgot to post it here. Thumbs up
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 14, 2017 10:08 AM CST
Thank you ... I posted the photos to that database page, so you can see better photos than the ones I put up in this thread.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Nov 14, 2017 10:26 AM CST
Lyn, from your link:

"The deep maroon color of the leaves persists throughout the growing season. When the leaves are removed from the stem, a couple dots of white latex will be visible. This characteristic and the thicker texture of the Norway maple leaf is an easy way to separate this species from the sugar maple, which has a similarly shaped leaf. Crimson King completely lacks fall color, turning from maroon to singed-looking gray-black as fall progresses."

Several other references also say that 'Crimson King' lacks fall colour, which doesn't seem to tie in with your tree. Have you checked for the white dots of latex?
[Last edited by sooby - Nov 14, 2017 10:28 AM (+)]
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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 14, 2017 10:31 AM CST
Hi Sue ...

No I haven't checked for the dots ... Smiling Would they show up in fall ?

but I did find that the references were mixed about fall color.

The tree does not have the right architecture for the sugar maple trees I have researched.

Do you know what kind of maple it might be ?
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Nov 14, 2017 12:18 PM CST
Crimson King Maples do turn bronze in the fall. I'd go take a photo but all the leaves are on the ground after our wind storm the other day. Smiling
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Nov 14, 2017 1:13 PM CST
It could still be a purple leaved Norway maple, there are several different ones and some may have better fall colour than others. Often they are just referred to as 'Crimson King' whatever the actual cultivar. 'Royal Red' is one that is said to have better fall colour than 'Crimson King'.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 14, 2017 2:14 PM CST
Sue ...

I just Googled 'Royal Red' and my tree never has the red fall foliage I saw in the images for 'Royal Red'.

@DaisyI

Could you look at the fall foliage photos I posted to 'Crimson King' and tell me what you think ? Thank you.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Nov 14, 2017 2:29 PM CST
'Royal Red' is supposed to be yellowish brown in fall. Can you post examples of the red fall foliage you saw, Lyn? The point I was really trying to make was that with several dark leaved cultivars it is hard to pinpoint a specific one reliably enough to give it a cultivar label.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 14, 2017 5:46 PM CST
Sue, I've looked at more photos and more sites. You are right. I've looked at so many photos of 'Crimson King' and 'Royal Red' that at this point, I am back to square one. I don't know which maple tree I have in my yard ... Smiling

I'll look for the dots next year.

Do you think the photos should be moved to 'Royal Red'. I don't know. I just like the tree and the photos ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Nov 15, 2017 6:19 AM CST
You could just put it under Acer platanoides if that seems to be the consensus. There is at least one hybrid that has purple leaves too, I don't know if it has the latex.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 15, 2017 1:07 PM CST
Thanks, Sue. Acer platanoides doesn't seem to have the right tree architecture. However, it is one of the parents in the cross for both 'Crimson King' and 'Royal Red', which are a cross of a norway maple and a sugar maple.

I think I'll leave the photos where they are until I can check for the latex.

Thank you for your help. Now, I am really curious about which cultivar Mrs. J planted .. Smiling

I'll continue to research when I have time and if I think the photos need to be moved to 'Royal Red', I request that they be moved.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Nov 16, 2017 6:35 PM CST
Both 'Royal Red' and 'Crimson King' are cultivars of Acer platanoides. Where did you see it suggested they are hybrids? The thing is it could be neither cultivar, there are other purple leaved Norway and other maples. The only other thing I can suggest is to find a specialist nursery if you have one nearby, and show them a leaf and some pictures.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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KentPfeiffer
Nov 16, 2017 6:38 PM CST

Moderator

RoseBlush1 said:

I think I'll leave the photos where they are until I can check for the latex.



If you don't know that your tree is, in fact, 'Crimson King' the pictures don't belong in that entry. The general maple entry, Maple (Acer), would be a more appropriate place for them.

Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 16, 2017 9:35 PM CST
Sue ...

Both 'Royal Red' and 'Crimson King' are cultivars of Acer platanoides. Where did you see it suggested they are hybrids?

As I did my research, I visited several sites and did not record every site I visited. I cannot tell you specifically where I found this information. I can tell you that it came up several times.

Several sites also said it was a seedling of A. platanoides 'Schwedleri" nigrum.

Acer platanoides 'Schwedleri': 'Schwedleri' Norway Maple1

The only other thing I can suggest is to find a specialist nursery if you have one nearby, and show them a leaf and some pictures.

I live in a small, remote town in the mountains of northern California. The chances of my finding anyone nearby with the expertise to identify the tree are nil. I can't even find someone with enough expertise to prune the tree, or any of my other trees, properly.

@KentPfeiffer ...

I thought I knew for sure until Sue mentioned another maple that had the same plant architecture. Now, I am no longer certain. I know it is not the traditional tree identified as a norway maple because it does not have the same shape, so I know the photos do not belong on that page.

As I mentioned above, I researched several sites before deciding to post the photos to 'Crimson King'. Some sites say that CK does not have remarkable fall foliage. Others say it can be yellow-to-bronze.

https://www.grimmsgardens.com/...

https://www.reference.com/home...

There are so many variables that can impact plant performance, it seems reasonable to me, that it is possible to have mixed reports.

Do you have the Admin rights to move the photos ? I don't mind having them moved to the generic maple page. The tree was planted by the previous owner of my home and as I mentioned above, there is no way I can get an expert identification.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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