Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: Semp History/Cross Question

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Name: Chad
Oklahoma (Zone 7b)
Region: Oklahoma Sempervivums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Bulbs Enjoys or suffers hot summers The WITWIT Badge
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chadu82
Nov 27, 2017 10:55 PM CST
Just curious, if there is a semp that I have in my planters that grows very well in Oklahoma, is it possible to see if it's been crossed with other semps? I just wondered if there might be any others out there I could look at adding to my collection in the spring that are closely related to some of my strong performers.
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Nov 28, 2017 11:05 AM CST
Makes sense, what is the semp you're referring to?

Name: Chad
Oklahoma (Zone 7b)
Region: Oklahoma Sempervivums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Bulbs Enjoys or suffers hot summers The WITWIT Badge
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chadu82
Nov 28, 2017 5:54 PM CST
@gg5, Niphetos and Pepito are two that I'm curious about. Excuse my spelling if I didn't spell them correctly. ­čĄô
[Last edited by chadu82 - Nov 28, 2017 5:55 PM (+)]
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Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Nov 28, 2017 5:59 PM CST
Chad I'm pretty sure there is a way in the database to see which semps are related, but only if that info is available. There used to be someone in Germany who was giving us this info for many of the Euro semps, but he passed away, and no one is really able to continue in his place. The website semp list, might also have parent info, can't remember. sempervivum-liste.de
@Valleylynn maybe you can help us figure out which semps are parents/offspring of other cultivars. Thumbs up

Name: Karen
NM (Zone 7b)
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plantmanager
Nov 28, 2017 6:01 PM CST
That would be interesting and helpful if that info is available somewhere. Bet Kevin might have the answer.
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Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
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gg5
Nov 28, 2017 6:16 PM CST
Kevin will know any of his...but neither of these are his Thumbs up

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Nov 28, 2017 6:22 PM CST

Moderator

Unfortunately neither of the breeders for those two semps show who the parents are. Not even the seed parent.
Some of the breeders are very good about showing parentage, like Kevin Vaughn.
Volkmar Schara on many of his shows the seed parent.http://sempervivum-liste.de/node/45
There are 7 pages of his names cultivars.

If you look at this list in our database of semps from Kevin you can see most of the parentage of each one. https://garden.org/plants/grou...
Go to the bottom of the page for the entry. There are entries for parentage.

Hope this is helpful?

Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
Garden Art Birds Dog Lover Cat Lover Region: Pacific Northwest Hummingbirder
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gg5
Nov 30, 2017 3:46 PM CST
Thanks Lynn that is helpful!

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Nov 30, 2017 6:59 PM CST

Moderator

You are welcome Greg.
You can also use that same kind of feature on the German site by clicking on the breeders name in one of the cultivar entries. From there you click on "Z├╝chter-Sorten". That takes you to a complete list of that breeders semps. That is where you will sometimes see parentage information.
Here is for Volmar Schara http://sempervivum-liste.de/no...
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
Garden Art Birds Dog Lover Cat Lover Region: Pacific Northwest Hummingbirder
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gg5
Dec 1, 2017 5:50 PM CST
Great thanks Lynn!

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Dec 1, 2017 5:55 PM CST

Moderator

I tip my hat to you.

Most of the breeders don't give information.
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Dec 1, 2017 10:27 PM CST
You know it's so weird that some people do crosses but keep it SECRET. The chances of creating something identical in a cross like that is almost nil. Of course I'm usually crossing the grandchildren by the time the plant reaches the market anyway so this is an OLD secret. That's why I do appreciate the few people that do list their crosses or even the pod parent if its from open pollination. For example the pod parent of 'Killer' is known and quite different in form and color than 'Killer' itself. this, the cross must be a fairly wide one (VERY different parents). These are the kind of plants that are such fun to use as parents.'Killer' changed my whole breeding program.

Kevin
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
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AntMan01
Jan 3, 2018 10:20 AM CST
valleylynn said:You are welcome Greg.
You can also use that same kind of feature on the German site by clicking on the breeders name in one of the cultivar entries. From there you click on "Z├╝chter-Sorten". That takes you to a complete list of that breeders semps. That is where you will sometimes see parentage information.
Here is for Volmar Schara


Thank you Lynn, what a great tip... I spend so many hours on that German site, so many spectacular semps. PS: I couldn't quote your link because I'm a brand new member :-)

Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
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Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
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AntMan01
Jan 3, 2018 10:23 AM CST
JungleShadows said:You know it's so weird that some people do crosses but keep it SECRET. [snip] For example the pod parent of 'Killer' is known and quite different in form and color than 'Killer' itself. this, the cross must be a fairly wide one (VERY different parents). These are the kind of plants that are such fun to use as parents.'Killer' changed my whole breeding program. Kevin


I looked up Sempervivum 'Killer', very nice, yet it's another one that's been added to the Chick Charms series, and rebranded as Chick Charm Cranberry Cocktail :(

Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
Allium 'Millenium' - 2018 Perennial Plant of the Year:
http://www.perennialplant.org/...
https://www.waltersgardens.com...
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
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AntMan01
Jan 3, 2018 10:32 AM CST
Question for you semp hybridizers, when is the stigma on semp blooms receptive, relative to the opening of anthers and release of pollen. Summer of 2017, I had a rare flowering of heuffelii 'Torrid Zone' (intense red) and 'Gold Bug', and over a period of weeks I emasculated flowers on Torrid Zone and applied pollen from Gold Bug.

I had a lesson on Iris breeding this past spring, and learned how to tell when the stigma is receptive (1 day after pollen release), then tried my hand at Iris crosses with woodland Iris.
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
Allium 'Millenium' - 2018 Perennial Plant of the Year:
http://www.perennialplant.org/...
https://www.waltersgardens.com...
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Jan 3, 2018 10:34 AM CST

Moderator

Hi there AntMan01, and a great big Welcome! to NGA. So glad you found your way here.
I see you already know Kevin. It would be great if you could come to the Hybridizing Clinic in April.
I'll let Kevin address the topic of Chick Charms.
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
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AntMan01
Jan 3, 2018 11:48 AM CST
Thanks for the welcome Smiling

I'm excited to find this active forum, with enthusiastic & knowledgeable semp/jov fans, just perusing the site over the last few days I've learned a lot. And yes, I still call jovibarbas by that name, particularly the heuff types, but I'm up on taxonomy as well, and appreciate this forum's efforts to update the database accordingly.

By the way, my avatar photo: an old planter (15 yrs or more) in perfect semp growth equilibrium (they don't try spreading any further or over each other), red-leaf heuffelii 'Torrid Zone', brownish coffee color 'Nouveau Pastel', and silvery ciliosum var. borisii. That pic is from 2010, I've uploaded a pic from late June 2017.

Thumb of 2018-01-03/AntMan01/60bf55

Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
Allium 'Millenium' - 2018 Perennial Plant of the Year:
http://www.perennialplant.org/...
https://www.waltersgardens.com...
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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springcolor
Jan 3, 2018 12:48 PM CST
Welcome! Glad you found us.
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Jan 3, 2018 6:07 PM CST

Moderator

Mark, that is a most lovely photo of container grown semps. I love the combination. Am I correct in thinking that the container planting is 15 years old? How do you maintain it? What is your soil mix? Tell me all about it.
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
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AntMan01
Jan 3, 2018 10:41 PM CST
valleylynn said:Mark, that is a most lovely photo of container grown semps. I love the combination. Am I correct in thinking that the container planting is 15 years old? How do you maintain it? What is your soil mix? Tell me all about it.


Thank you. Yes, 15 years, planted it in early 2000s. The planter is a shallow plastic dish type, it's held up well. The shallow arc dish allows soil expansion during soil freezing/thawing, previously I had more conventional large boxy rectangular planters, they would crack & split from soil expansion in winter.

Soil is nothing special, but definitely on the lean side, using my typical "rock garden soil mix" which is 30% loamy soil, 70% sand/grit. I never fertilize. I do water occasionally during hot dry spells (only early mornings).

Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
Allium 'Millenium' - 2018 Perennial Plant of the Year:
http://www.perennialplant.org/...
https://www.waltersgardens.com...

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