Ask a Question forum: Buying a small farm

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Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
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Jai_Ganesha
Dec 21, 2017 7:30 AM CST
This is more personal than I usually like to get online, but in the next couple of years I would like to buy a small farm with a house for living in. I'm looking at between 2 and 10 acres. It will likely be in the US states of WV, KY, PA, or OH.

Financially I am prepared as I will ever be but logistically I know nothing. I am prepared to wait a couple years for the right property. Cross your fingers.

I will certainly have a few animals, but the majority of my ideas, wishes, and dreams involve having a large greenhouse and other plant spaces including a sitting garden full of roses, and planted walk-in aviary. I will also have religious/spiritual space but no commercial space--ie, I don't want to buy/sell/trade anything.

My question here is:

With gardening, plants, and horticulture specifically in mind what is your advice?

I have seen tons of guides that are geared toward people who are buying a farm for profit, people who are farming animals, or people who are buying a home without a farm.

I have had trouble finding any advice for people who are buying the farm with the primary goal of personal garden building. But I can't be the only one who has ever done this.

Any advice from people who have done this will be most helpful. I know it's a very broad question. Feel free to PM me as well.

Thank you, plant nerds! <3
Keep going!
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Dec 21, 2017 7:42 AM CST
Two things come to mind. The first is to check out published soil maps of areas that you are interested in. That will tell you the quality of the land so that you don't buy something full of rocks or which floods seasonally. Also find out the prevailing soil pH if plants you wish to grow are finnicky about having an acidic soil (or not).

The second thing is not to get too ambitious. While you can use herbicides there in the USA that are not allowed where I am, the weeds are much, much worse in the country than in town. So if you currently live in an urban area that is something to consider. If you're already rural then you will already know what to expect. There is likely to be a lot of hand-weeding unless you wish to use herbicides, so the manageable area in the former case could well be less than you could manage in an urban area.

I just thought of another thing - irrigation. Make sure there is a good water source if you wish to grow thirsty plants.
[Last edited by sooby - Dec 21, 2017 7:43 AM (+)]
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Name: Louise Alley
Central Maine, Waterville (Zone 5a)
BillAlleysDLs
Dec 21, 2017 8:07 AM CST
Sue has fine suggestions. I've been on my few acres for 35 years and love the property. It is 75% open land, sloping south and mid way up a hill. It is full of lupine, a acid grower. The 1/2 up the hill seems to be good for avoiding early frosts; valleys and hill top seem to get them first. Few stones are nice. My recent beds are compost on top of newspaper or cardboard. I cultivate nearly an acre and have a shovel, scythe and a lawn mower for primary tools.
Have a great time planning and plotting! All the best. Louise
Name: Carol H. Sandt
Lancaster County, Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
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csandt
Dec 21, 2017 8:16 AM CST
I have had an 8.8 acre farm in the River Hills of Martic Township, Lancaster County, PA, for 42 years, and that was always my dream too. It is a hilltop property with a great view of the Susquehanna River, but with lots of rocks to dig out every time I install a new garden. It has an old farm house that had not been lived in for ten years before we bought the property. So there was a lot of fixing up to do. (Old farm houses can be high maintenance and costly.) Initially I had horses, but the last one died in 2004, and now about six acres are planted in crops by a neighboring farmer and I use the rest for gardening around my home. So I do have some experience and suggestions to share.

1. Start looking at properties online now so you know current real estate prices in the areas you are considering.
2. Hilltop properties like mine can be short on water, so check that for any property you are considering. On the plus side, the drainage on a hilltop property is excellent.
3. Steep slopes are hard to maintain except by manual means. Avoid properties with steep slopes unless you are prepared to install terraces and retaining walls.
4. Large animals like horses tear up small areas, so I would plan on at least one acre of pasture for each large animal. Plus good fencing or they will get out and destroy your gardens.
5. Lowland near water will probably have poor drainage, so avoid it.
6. For any property that is of interest, investigate whether there are any large projects planned nearby that would affect your quality of life (e.g., a natural gas pipeline, a dump, etc.) In my area, a pipeline is the major issue.
7. If you don't find the perfect property at an affordable price, think about how it would be practical for you to compromise in ways that you would find acceptable.

Happy farm hunting! I understand your dream. It was once my own.
Carol H. Sandt

“Once you stop learning, you start dying.” – Albert Einstein
[Last edited by csandt - Dec 21, 2017 8:57 AM (+)]
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Name: Deb
Pacific NW (Zone 8b)
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Bonehead
Dec 21, 2017 8:49 AM CST
Another piece to consider is prevailing winds. We bought 15 acres some 35 year ago and immediately built a house on it. In a perfect world, I would have waited a year before even beginning to plan a house (but who has that time...) to experience all four seasons and pay attention to where the wind blew and how the sun changes. Our primary deck faces away from the road, but directly into the face of the wind. Some of my gardens are also in the path of pretty stiff winds, and all the shrubs have an obvious kink to them. Other gardens are protected by buildings or trees and are just a treat to work in.

Noise is another factor to consider. Trains are nice if they are far enough away, planes can be annoying. We are about a mile off a main interstate highway. That is handy for easy access, but as the years have gone by, more and more trees have been cut between us and the road and now I have a definite underlying traffic growl that rather drives me crazy.

The flip side is how accessible will your local stores be. Our trade-off for the traffic noise is we are 10 minutes away from a small town (groceries, gas, medical, banks, feed store, shops). The town is small enough to not have any big box stores, but large enough to meet our immediate needs.

Look closely at your potential neighbors. Our property was discounted because the guy below us was a junker. For whatever reason, every owner (6 so far) of that property has also been a junker. Nice folks all of them, but they apparently are unable to pass up anything free! I'm OK with it, we've just planted lots of screening over the years.

It is important to remember that you can only control what you actually own. I don't know how many times our small town newspaper has people up in arms because of planned development - they somehow think because they moved here for the 'countryside' it should always stay that way. If you want to look out your back door at the deer roaming a woodlot, you'd best own that woodlot or you may eventually be gazing at a whole slew of near identical houses.

Your plan sounds lovely, I wish you the best of luck with it.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
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stone
Dec 21, 2017 3:00 PM CST
While referring people to other forums might not be exactly copacetic, this seems like the kind of question I see asked over and over over at the survivalist forum:
http://www.survivalistboards.c...

You might hop over there and search the old threads... or try google:
https://www.google.com/search?...

And then (after reading), go ahead and post your question... Lot of interest in property and growing food among the survivalists....

as far as my personal suggestions?
while I've had good experiences in WV, that is a state with a lot of problems due to mountain top removal coal mining... so... be aware that the water might be poison.

As far as "weeds"...
Never heard of them...
God didn't create weeds.

One person's weeds is another person's native plants.

And in my experience, the weed problems are in town, where all those exotic plants have escaped cultivation.
out in the country? I don't see them.

A problem I had here... buncha drug labs in the area.
Do you know what to expect from meth-heads? they gotta steal to support their life-style...

As far as gardening?
Any area is going to be subject to different pests, diseases, drought/flooding.... whole new set of things to learn with each location... nothing like jumping in and getting your feet wet!
Name: Karen
NM (Zone 7b)
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plantmanager
Dec 21, 2017 3:10 PM CST
I don't have any real suggestions for you, Jai, but your dream sounds very doable, and I have a feeling that you'll make it a wonderful place! It takes money, and a lot of work, but it's totally worthwhile to have the place you dream of.

We finally have our dream place. I wish we'd found it much earlier. You're starting early so that's great! We have an iffy well, so check your water sources carefully.
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Dec 21, 2017 7:30 PM CST
Hi Jai,

We found our dream "farm" 40 years ago in the Central Valley of California. It was only two acres with a house that hadn't been lived in for 4 years. I made a list of all I wanted to do with my dream farm and then plotted the amount of land I thought each endeavor would take. My final accessment was 1.5 to 5 acres. Luckily, our back neighbor grew wheat and our side neighbors (we couldn't see them) sat on their decks and watched their weeds grow. It was very quiet.

Orchard, barn, pond, greenhouse, vegetable garden, chicken coop, geese, ducks. NO lawn, NO pasture but a cactus garden, a wild flower garden, a forest of pines, oaks and birch trees. When we moved in, the weeds (sorry Stone, no other way to descibe them) were 5 ft tall. They had NO redeeming value unless thistle, prickly lettuce and Poison Hemlock get you excited. It took me almost 30 years but when I was done, I was proud of what I had accomplished.

Finally, it all became a burden and we moved to our dream retirement home. Smaller house, flat lot (we were on a hillside), smaller garden, smaller ponds, smaller greenhouse.

Take heed of all the suggestions others have made about finding the perfect spot - we were clueless but extremely lucky that we ended up where we did.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Dec 21, 2017 7:44 PM CST
One thing I noticed in several answers was the word 'we'. How many people would be needed to take care of a property 2-10 acres in size, starting from scratch to build everything and get the beds started?

Also, do the people need to be on the property most of the time, i.e., not employed outside the home? Will there be a need to hire helpers/assistants/farm hands/animal caretakers, etc.?

This is what concerns me the most. I'm only one person and have trouble just taking care of a single acre. If there were two of me Rolling on the floor laughing (or a second person) this would be more doable.
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Dec 21, 2017 9:12 PM CST
I was young, healthy, and had a Hubby that followed direction well. Smiling The reason we no longer live in our 2 acre paradise has to do with old age... It is a young persons sport.

I did put the church teenagers to work stacking wood and helping me build fences but that was it. I wanted to do it myself. When we built our greenhouse, we had half a dozen names etched into the concrete foundation. When we cut trees, we had a bunch of friends that wanted to be loggers. It was always fun and somehow, we didn't kill anyone. I guess my social circle was bigger then? No, I still have the same friends. The problem is that we are all 70+ now. Rolling on the floor laughing
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Deb
Pacific NW (Zone 8b)
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Bonehead
Dec 22, 2017 8:43 AM CST
We (husband and I) still live on 15 acres, but we have significantly scaled down our use of it. We used to raise various animals and maintained a huge vegetable garden, along with numerous flower beds. About 5 years ago, we started tearing out fences, letting the fields revert to their natural state, and introducing more native plants into the garden beds. I am less concerned about keeping the grounds weed-free and more interested in what shows up on its own. Not keeping cows or horses has significantly changed our outer environment - lots of new discoveries every time I take a walk-about.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
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stone
Dec 22, 2017 9:12 AM CST
greene said:One thing I noticed in several answers was the word 'we'. How many people would be needed to take care of a property 2-10 acres in size, starting from scratch to build everything and get the beds started?

This is what concerns me the most. I'm only one person and have trouble just taking care of a single acre.


When it's one person, you learn to prioritize.

I've spoken at length about my attitude about a tidy garden, and mowed turf (hate both).

When we figure out what's important to us, we can focus on that, and not waste time on stuff that doesn't matter.

So.... As a single individual, I fenced in 15 acres, but.... Did it in stages.... Didn't try to do it all in one go!

The deer fence for the garden? The same.... I probably have 3 acres fenced in for garden.... And will continue to add to it...

The garden is gorgeous, but.... The house is a mess.... I eventually wash dishes when I'm reduced to using plastic forks and spoons.... I eventually take my clothes to the laundromat when I don't have anything clean.... To reduce time spent there, I bring it home and hang it out on the line and the fence.

Like I said, priorities!

As far as work.... I have my workload reduced to a couple days a week, and try to grab a truckload of horse poop as I head for the house. May as well get some use out of that trip to town....

As far as maintaining the property?
When I need firewood, I clear for more garden space and thin the thicket enough to be able to walk through it.... Still have plenty of areas that are completely unpassable.... That's fine, ima need firewood in the future.

No livestock, just the cat herd.... I did have some chickens that the neighbor gave me, but a weasel or something got the last one.... I'll build a better cage next time....

Pretty much.... A can-do attitude, and a relaxed approach is all ya need. (can't do everything at once!)
And, plant enough variety that if there's a crop failure in one thing, plenty of other stuff will produce, and.... Instead of weeding, use mulch or something....
Last year, I scattered poppy seed over the tomato patch, poppies came up and prevented weeds... Shoe-horned watermelons among the poppies in spring, when poppies died, spread fresh manure, and the watermelons covered that and prevented weeds.
In the new garden area, spread manure, planted veggies, no weeds.
Probably the best technique for planting veggies is the succession route.
Plant a few every couple weeks all year.... In the deep south, we can garden all year long.

Edit:
Probably didn't make clear about not tidying the vegetable patch...
When I scattered the poppy seed, I left the tomato plants standing.
When I scattered the autumn seeds this year.... The turnips and rutabagas and mustard and poppies came up among the beans, tomatoes, gourds, corn stalks, and whatever.
You want to avoid pulling anything....
Pulling stuff out.... Means that you are exposing the "weed" seeds to light, and.... Making it possible for them to come up...
Bare soil=weeds.
[Last edited by stone - Dec 22, 2017 2:53 PM (+)]
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N. Ohio (Zone 5b)
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Tisha
Dec 24, 2017 12:43 PM CST
Imagine the future of your environment, as @Bonehead suggested.
It`s evolution will occur.
I would also consider ; a well, a cistern, and rain barrels.
Hoping you find your little piece of serenity.

Tisha
Name: Sue
SF Bay Area, CA (Zone 9b)
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Zuni
Dec 24, 2017 11:37 PM CST
Yeah, your question is really broad. Are you planning on buying a place that already has everything on it you want, as far as house, fencing, driveway, well, electricity, cable, internet, etc.? Will there be a cell phone signal? Don't forget to think about everything you want in your life from when you wake up until you go to bed, as far as utilities.

Then, you need to think about your structure. Is it insulated? Moisture proof? Will you be dealing with mice and other critters? Will it freeze? How will you keep it from freezing - as in the water pipes?

Just really start paying attention to everything you do every day, all day long, including water coming out of your faucet, and hot water in your shower, all of the utilities you use, your grocery shopping and other shopping. Will it be possible to get those things easily? Will a trip to town be a major event? Will you have to drive in snow and do you know how to do that? Can you unfreeze locks? Put chains on your tires? Clear your driveway and walkways? Have someone to do it for you?

Will you need fencing?

If you have critters, what about their shelter? Water (that isn't frozen), heat for them if necessary, protection from predators.

I bought an old house on about 1/4 acre, another on 1/2 acre, and bare land of 2 acres (where I had to put in my own well, and all utilities, etc., and a road, fencing, etc., etc. On that one, I lived in a trailer until I sold it.

On the properties that needed some clearing - blackberries on one property, and just major weeds on another - I fenced in areas and got a couple pigs! They are great at clearing property and are fun animals to have around. But, you need a good fence. Then, you can sell them before winter and/or put them in your own freezer.

As far as getting gardens going, I always started out by covering an area with black plastic to kill the weeds as much as possible. Made it easier to deal with later. Then, I'd just till the dead stuff under. Then, depending on what you're planting, it's really helpful to use weed cloth or black plastic, and just cut holes where you want your plants or just lay the weed cloth around your plants.

All of the above was done in WA state. There are beautiful plants and trees for any hardiness zone. You'll just need to learn what they are. I learned it's much more satisfying to go with nature than against it - to find plants that are hardy for your zone. And learn what you can plant during your growing season. I had to learn to grow things that would grow in a very short growing season. It can be done, but you have to give up on the idea of beefsteak tomatoes, for instance LOL.

And, even if you have a greenhouse, you will need to be aware of how much sunshine you'll get. If not enough for what you want to have in your greenhouse, you'll need to provide lights. That means electricity - solar or a generator. And remember that solar needs sun, so you may need a back-up source for your solar systems. And think about whether or not you'll also need to provide heat for the greenhouse.

I used a lot of straw - be sure it's straw and not hay, or you'll have a bunch of seeds sprouting - when I was starting new beds. As plants grew, I'd then put a bunch of straw around them to keep weeds down, and it also helps keep them moist. Potatoes, especially, do great this way. As they grow, you just keep adding straw, covering most of the plant. It will then create potatoes under the straw, and you can just lift up the straw and grab a few potatoes for dinner, without digging up the plant.

And beware of plants that might be so happy in your new zone that you may end up with a plant that takes over your acreage. Where I lived, that would have included mint or blackberries, for instance.

I can tell you from experience, that if you think a horse will eat down an area so it will look like a lawn, like I did, that horses only eat what they like and leave the rest LOL. They definitely will leave all of the thistle plants.

Oh, and don't forget the deer, who love the fresh young tips of expensive trees...

Don't know if any of that random information was helpful, but it's some of the stuff I learned by doing what you want to do. It's satisfying, but also a lot of work.
[Last edited by Zuni - Dec 24, 2017 11:48 PM (+)]
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Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
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Jai_Ganesha
Dec 26, 2017 9:42 AM CST
Thank you all again. I've sat down and read this entire thread and I really appreciate it.

Somebody mentioned the pluses and minuses of hilltops and lowlands. I had not really thought about that either, although it seems obvious. I used to live near a wetland and the plants that grew there were very peculiar (carnivorous plants, cranberries, huge skunk cabbages, etc) but I don't want to propagate them.

Somebody else mentioned water being poisoned by mountaintop removal. How do you determine this? And what water does it affect (well water, city water, rain water, etc)? That's something I do not know too much about.

Somebody else mentioned published soil maps. I've found some of these but they seem to vary a lot and I'm not 100% sure what I should be looking for. Can anybody enlighten me about this?
Keep going!
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Dec 26, 2017 9:55 AM CST
On soil maps, here where I am the soil maps classify the quality and potential use of the land. You can see some examples here, select the report from one of the more recent ones. I assume they would have the same sort of thing for the USA:

http://sis.agr.gc.ca/cansis/pu...

It should help you avoid purchasing land that has a large amount of rock too near the surface, or is too wet much of the year, or has some other problem.
Name: kathy
Michigan
Zone 4b, near St. Clair MI
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katesflowers
Dec 26, 2017 7:19 PM CST
Jai ! Congratulations - what a fantastic dream !
My husband & I sold everything we owned (in the city) when we were 40 and bought 27 acres far away in the country. We've never looked back.
We are physically & mentally & spiritually able to maintain it all. We've also learned to be pragmatic.
Any property you buy in the country will require: a good well, a generator, (if over 5 acres) a tractor, 4-wheel drive transportation, (if it is an existing home) a home inspection, a talk with the neighbors to see what the land history really is, a land survey (know what you are buying & official property markers), have a rainy day fund of $10,000, cut good drainage furrows, check easement regs, is the county considering paving the road bordering your property, make sure your house is on high ground, know where the nearest hospital is, post your property, learn how to sanitize your well.
Now that we've lived here for years, I'll tell you some of the ah-ha moments:
The farmer working the next farm doesn't respect wind direction when spraying; our well pump had to be replaced $$$$; our tractor needed a tire $$$$, new roof on 2 barns $$$$$, farmer on other side of us is thinking of subdividing & building homes, taxes keep going up, get your property rated agricultural, be sure you are insured, snowmobilers/4-wheelers do not respect anything, hunters will chase a wounded animal through your back porch during hunting season.
Don't get me wrong - we love it here Rolling on the floor laughing
"Things won are done, joy's soul lies in the doing." Shakespeare
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Tisha
Dec 27, 2017 6:52 AM CST
@Jai_Ganesha, Smiling
Has your head stopped spinning from all the info and considerations?
It will, and you`ll start having fun with it. Angel
It`s over whelming ,but well worth it.
Best Wishes.

Tisha

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sallyg
Dec 27, 2017 5:17 PM CST
Probably, at some point, you just have to close your eyes and jump.
Like marriage Big Grin
..come into the peace of wild things..-Wendell Berry
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Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
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Jai_Ganesha
Dec 27, 2017 6:23 PM CST
Haha. When I was growing up, getting married was illegal for big fat homos like me. So it was never something that I really considered in life the way that most people take it for granted.

Now that I'm in my thirties, I don't want to downplay the difficulties that other people have faced in being denied civil rights, but for me personally I wonder if remaining unmarried has not been a weird sort of blessing.

For one, I can work the weird shifts that I do and thus afford 12 billion more houseplants without a husband or kids to worry about feeding. lol
Keep going!

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