Daylilies forum: if a dayllily has rust................

Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3
Views: 1865, Replies: 47 » Jump to the end
(Zone 6a)
signet
Dec 25, 2017 9:26 AM CST
Hi All , here is a question that has languished in my brain for a long time. I wonder if anyone has any insight into the rust factor. If a daylily is afllicted with rust and you remove the leaves (and burn ) will that plant continue to be plagued by rust or is there something you can apply to the now naked crown to kill any possible remaining spores ? will the new growth not yet showing have spores? rust ?

When I first got interested in daylilies I was told it was a plant that had no problems growing . Now 10 years later I know that there are thrips problems, rust, Tobacco Ringspot Virus, Spring Sickness, Leaf Streak, Crown Rot and now Shoestring Root Rot . OMG what's next .

What happened to healthy daylilies? How can I pass on a daylily to someone and claim it is a worry free plant?
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Dec 25, 2017 9:47 AM CST
Rust does not affect the crown, so if you've removed all the leaves right down to a bare crown, then unless any spores remain in the environment and there is new growth that starts before they die, the rust should not persist. Whether or not you might want to apply a fungicide as well would depend on the individual situation. See this web page:

http://web.ncf.ca/ah748/newpla...

Rust should not survive the winter where you are.

Almost all the problems listed have been around for years, Stout wrote about thrips on daylilies, spring sickness has been around since at least the 1940s, I forget when leaf streak was first noticed (I think it was by Spencer and it had a different name back then). I doubt shoestring root rot is very common in daylilies, it only occurs in certain environments, such as old orchards or where there are other infected woody plants.

We don't know if TRSV (tobacco ringspot virus) occurs in North American daylilies, it was intercepted on imported daylilies. Presumably it is likely but you would see the spots.

The biggest concern in Ontario right now, IMHO, would be the daylily gall midge. Like daylily rust and the daylily leafminer, these are recent imports from overseas that somehow got past the phytosanitary requirements.
[Last edited by sooby - Dec 25, 2017 9:53 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1608127 (2)
Name: Mary Anne Jay
Wentworth, NS, Canada (Zone 5a)
Region: Canadian
Image
Raven
Dec 25, 2017 2:07 PM CST
I agree with you, Sooby. In our daylily club in NS, this year the biggest discussion held was re the daylily gall midge which we were told was in BC and NS. Now Ontario? It is such a concern for many of us {who do not have it} that our club practices with reference to sharing and selling plants within the club require no earth. The advice is that no earth/no scapes will prevent the spread. I hope this will be enough.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Dec 25, 2017 2:56 PM CST
It is said to be in north-west Ontario. It's good that your NS club is taking precautions, Raven, not all do from what I've heard. The larvae feed in the buds and then pupate in the soil, that's why it's suggested that bare-root and without scapes is safest. It was introduced into BC initially some years ago, then spread naturally down into Washington State. We can only assume it got over the Rockies and into eastern Canada (skipping the Prairies?) on infested daylilies, whether people brought them back from the west in pots or shipped with scapes isn't clear. It's not a strong flier so natural spread will be slow, so avoiding potted daylilies, daylilies dug with earth still on the roots, and with scapes is the best way we can avoid helping it spread faster.
(Zone 6a)
signet
Dec 25, 2017 11:34 PM CST
So here is my dilemma , I have bought daylilies from a grower in Ontario , however that grower gets them from Florida ( possible rust on southern plants.) How do I know I am not getting infected plants when I buy those ? Should I only buy from Northern growers to avoid rust . Which is worse rust on a southern plant or gall midge on a northern plant. If I grow a southern plant ......that has rust , and it somehow infects my other plants , now I have a real problem right?. You say it cannot survive the temps where I am . Are the powers that be 100 % certain this is the case? I am seriously concerned because I probably have around 3,000 daylily plants growing here if I include my seedlings.

As for gall midge how likely is it to come to my garden if I ordered plants from Northern Ontario , Or Nova Scotia ( which I have in the past for many years) Or BC which I also have done but not as often.

This gall midge thing is only one more and the latest thing to dispell the " easiest carefree perennial to grow " myth attached to daylilies.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Dec 26, 2017 6:36 AM CST
signet said:So here is my dilemma , I have bought daylilies from a grower in Ontario , however that grower gets them from Florida ( possible rust on southern plants.) How do I know I am not getting infected plants when I buy those ?


If they are shipped from Florida in the same year you buy them then you don't know unless you can see rust on the plants already. A plant that has internal rust may not show it on the outside until some time later. If the seller overwintered the plants in Ontario, and not in a greenhouse or otherwise protected from dying back completely, then they should be safe.

Should I only buy from Northern growers to avoid rust . .

That depends on the above answer, do you know they aren't bringing in plants from rust endemic areas the same year they sell to you. But in the unlikely event you do get rust, it's not likely to survive until the next year. Daylily rust has been in North America since at least the year 2000. Many people in Ontario have brought it in on new plants since that time and it has not survived the winters here.

Which is worse rust on a southern plant or gall midge on a northern plant.

Gall midge on any plant wherever it is from!

If I grow a southern plant ......that has rust , and it somehow infects my other plants , now I have a real problem right?. You say it cannot survive the temps where I am . Are the powers that be 100 % certain this is the case?

If your daylily leaves die completely back in winter rust cannot survive unless you also grow Patrinia. If it was going to survive in your area it surely would have by now since so many people bring in plants from the USA and have been doing for the seventeen plus years the fungus has been in North America.

As for gall midge how likely is it to come to my garden if I ordered plants from Northern Ontario , Or Nova Scotia ( which I have in the past for many years) Or BC which I also have done but not as often.

Impossible to say. It is more widespread in BC than it is in northern Ontario and Nova Scotia, where it is currently only in a handful of gardens as far as we know. But it can fly so it will eventually spread unless there is not a continuum of daylilies to act as a conduit (e.g. the "ditch lily"). It could actually be in other places in North America, since not everyone is going to report having it.

This gall midge thing is only one more and the latest thing to dispell the " easiest carefree perennial to grow " myth attached to daylilies.

The gall midge is much more of a concern in cold winter climates than daylily rust. Daylily growers far south of you in the USA don't have rust overwinter. Since the midge is in northern Ontario and Nova Scotia we know it can tolerate cold winters.

Popularity is a potential problem with any plant (if you grew 3,000 of some other plant, and many other people did also and shipped them around to each other as much as we do daylilies, there would be problems). We not only share the plants but any problems they may have in that garden. Then we grow a monoculture of that plant making it easy for any pest to proliferate. The ease of growing daylilies, and of shipping them, are part of the problem.

If some persons hadn't imported daylily rust, the daylily leafminer, and the gall midge from overseas without their getting intercepted by the plant protection authorities, we wouldn't have these three relatively new problems. All three arrived since the year 2000.
Name: Karen
Southeast PA (Zone 6b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
kousa
Dec 26, 2017 10:14 AM CST
I have been following this thread with great interest particularly regarding gall midge. If gall midge is in anyway similar to rose midge's effects on roses, then it will be headache and heartache for the organic gardener or any daylily grower who does not want to use insecticide. My experience with rose midges is that it is extremely difficult controlling the midges without the use of chemicals. There are some organic methods but they are so time consuming and require so much effort and persistence that it is next to impossible to deal with as a home gardener. I had issues with Japanese beetles, aphids, thrips, spider mites on roses but I was able to control these insects through the use of insecticidal soap, neem oil, picking, or just water sprays. But I had not been able to apply the above products to control rose midges. Two years ago, I had such a bad infestation that I had to resort to chemicals to eliminate rose midges. That experience really took a toll on my conscience and since then I had stopped buying anymore roses. I am now trying to reduce the number of roses in my garden because I do not want to have to apply more chemicals should the rose midge make a comeback. I hope the daylily gall midge will not infest my garden and daylilies anytime in the future. But I know that it does not take much to get an infestation going. One or two larvaes can quickly escalate into thousands in a year or two. By the time that you find out that you have a problem, the infestation is widespread.
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
Image
blue23rose
Dec 26, 2017 12:11 PM CST
Signet, I had to, almost but not really, laugh at your statement, "When I first got interested in daylilies I was told it was a plant that had no problems growing." I was told that too, but have many dl's that suffer from rust, aphids, leaf streak, etc. I do not spray chemicals on my plants, but it is tempting at times due to the extent of the problem.

I have no solution to any of the problems affecting daylilies. Each year, I hope that our winter is hard enough to kill the rust. Next spring, I have vowed to attack the aphids with neem, or insecticidal soap. Oddly enough, this past spring they attacked one daylily (Salem Witch) very hard, while another daylily nearby looked like it wasn't touched. I don't understand it.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
(Zone 6a)
signet
Dec 28, 2017 12:35 PM CST
blue23rose and Kousa . Yes it is a conundrum. I do not use chemicals here either . I figure the farmer out back/and to both sides of us and even across the road is putting enough poison in the ground without me adding to it.

What I dislike most though is being sold a bill of goods. I would still grow daylilies as I love them and the variety they offer but dont understand why people insist on the fairy tale that they are labour free plants. If I have to sit and pick aphids off my plants and peel back leaves to remove rust and now have to worry about bringing in gall midge and remove ruined blooms if I import daylilies and need to learn how to eradicate them ......how does that fit into the " labour free plants" myth.

I discovered much to my chagrin that a daylily trade with a local guy about 20 minutes away from me ..... that he obviously brought japanese beetles into my garden on his plants . H e has them in his garden he later told me ( and is not worried about it ! his words ) which I did not know till I told him I found some on the plants he traded me . I have never had Japanese beetles here so was shocked to see 2 on one of his plants he traded me . I made sure I did not use the dirt he potted any of the plants up in disposed of the dirt on the burning pile and set fire to it , hosed the plants down over the burning pit and I killed the japanese beetles i discovered ( gross) and hope that no japanese beetles escaped here .

It does disturb me that these pests seem to make it into the country somehow. Obiously someone is not having them inspected and skipping the phyto requirements and that makes me want to scream . This is just one more problem and I wonder why this is not being caught at our borders. Who knows I suppose it is possible they came in on other plants that dont need to be inspected or not inspected for gall midge. I would think there would be some kind of quarantine for plants before they are released into the country though .

We have just lost all our Ash trees thanks to an insect that came into the country after arriving on some boatload of imported wood packaging . 1 whole acre of trees lost some as old as 100 years and 90 feet tall. So distressing .

But back to daylilies......I would just like people to be honest when talking about daylilies . Just the facts Ma'am , Just the facts.
[Last edited by signet - Dec 28, 2017 12:38 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1609682 (9)
Name: bron
NSW-Qld border Australia
DD + her little ones
Image
bron
Jan 15, 2018 10:58 AM CST
SIgnet. I agree with your ire over people not disclosing potential and actual problems in the plants they sell. I had no daylily rust till I bought plants at a local market. The seller insisted they had no rust even when I said a plant had orange spores. When it spread to all my hems I confronted her and she admitted it. I soon realised that was the reason she kept pulling leaves off plants she had on the tables. She said: "Everything has rust nowadays. Rust doesn't kill daylilies." I think that it DOES kill small plants, and can weaken big plants.

Also, I bought some hems from people who were closing down. Their site claimed they had no rust. But when it arrived, their DOUBLE PINK TREASURE had heaps of orange spores. It is still small and has not flowered. The gowers they sold their remaining stock to, soon had rust everywhere too.

I too feel annoyed when I still see the 'perfect perennial' pitch. I have had a few hems die not long after flowering. So I am now apprehensive about them all. But haven't given up yet. But I don't replace hems which die for no apparent reason. Maybe some can't handle our subtropical climate. Especially now when for the past 2 years it has been 2 degrees C hotter than long term average. We no longer get frosts here.

@sooby has generously shared her knowledge about daylily rust with many of us. It was very useful to me when she clarified that rust only lives in the green parts of the plant. I had thought otherwise from reading that it was neccessary to use a systemic spray.

Also the 'remove all green parts', which she illustrates, worked well for me on a plant that was urghgh urghh awful with spores. It took a while to grow and bloom but still hasn't got rust. But with small plants I just remove the ends or whole of infected leaves so they don't recontaminate the plant and neighbouring ones. Many of my small hems die. I would rather get one large fan from a seller than 3 very small ones. Some small plants still languish after 3 years and being moved to better places. Meanwhile some seedlings have grown big and bloomed.

Maybe on receiving new hems u cld remove most leaves then drench them in a 'bath' before planting. I never spray as it is too windy, and I probably wouldn't get into the spaces between leaves.

Good luck.
(Zone 6a)
signet
Jan 16, 2018 9:52 PM CST
Bron , thanks for posting about what you have experienced. It is always helpful when others share what they have gone through and how they dealt with it.

I appreciate all of you taking the time to respond! I have learned a lot just from all your input on this one topic.
Name: Karen
Southeast PA (Zone 6b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
kousa
Jan 17, 2018 8:40 AM CST
When I first started growing daylilies, before rust came, I think daylilies were truly perfect perennials. They hardly required any care to grow in my zone. In fact, some of them grew like weeds and bloomed like crazy even with neglect, poor soil, and drought. Then came the tets with complicated edges, thick substance, and huge size, these plants I think need some fertilizer and good soil in order to produce nice and more blooms. It seemed they take more energy to produce those big thick blooms. Now that rust has hit my garden and my collection has expanded to include some high maintenance daylilies, I am spending more time to take of them. If rust does not go away next year from all this cold we have been getting and if I am so unfortunate as to get daylily midges into my garden, I think that will be my signal to downsize my collection and grow something else.
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
Image
blue23rose
Jan 17, 2018 12:01 PM CST
I agree, Karen. If I still have rust after this frozen tundra of a winter, I will be getting rid of some of the worst rust buckets in my garden.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Karen
Southeast PA (Zone 6b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
kousa
Jan 17, 2018 3:59 PM CST
Yes Vickie, I am with you. If I have to resort to the constant use of fungicide and pesticide to grow nice looking plants, I will have to reduce the number of plants that demand that the most. It would be a very sad day indeed if I have to quit growing daylilies for these reasons. Though I am sure there are good daylilies out there that do not need fungicide and pesticide to grow well. I have found some roses that are like that. But I think the day that daylilies are a pest and disease free plant is over. Sighing!
Name: Carole
Lake Macquarie, Australia
Butterflies Bookworm Region: Australia Birds Bee Lover Dragonflies
Garden Photography Salvias Seed Starter Enjoys or suffers hot summers Native Plants and Wildflowers Annuals
Image
carolem
Jan 18, 2018 4:24 AM CST
and as a daylily photos admirer this past few months, and with a holding order for my very first daylilies for planting out in the next couple months when the weather starts to taper off/become cooler, I must say I'm in two minds almost whether I should even be going there?! Feeling as though with the information I've been absorbing from those of you with the experience, should be telling me, don't bother starting...........
If you truly love nature, you will find beauty everywhere.

Vincent Van Gough
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Jan 18, 2018 5:59 AM CST
As far as I know the daylily gall midge does not occur in Australia. It is primarily in Europe (where it has been for over a hundred years), and a few scattered places in North America (mostly the Pacific North West). If North Americans avoid buying daylilies in pots/soil and with scapes the chances of acquiring it should be minimized.

Daylily rust does occur in Australia but I don't know how widespread it is there. If you grow only deciduous daylilies or it gets cold enough to kill all the daylily foliage for a period in the winter, daylily rust should not overwinter. Even here in North America I'm assuming it will get pushed back to the far south (in the east anyway) by the cold temperatures this winter. What one needs to do then is avoid buying it back in next year from somewhere it did survive.
Name: Carole
Lake Macquarie, Australia
Butterflies Bookworm Region: Australia Birds Bee Lover Dragonflies
Garden Photography Salvias Seed Starter Enjoys or suffers hot summers Native Plants and Wildflowers Annuals
Image
carolem
Jan 18, 2018 6:11 AM CST
@sooby, thanks. Certainly not cold enough here (coastal NSW) during winters. Rarely a light frost even. Do liaise and read with great interest, with the Daylilies of the Antipodes group too. Just thought I'd add my thoughts here during your discussions of rust mostly; that's what's giving me the heebie-jeebies Smiling
If you truly love nature, you will find beauty everywhere.

Vincent Van Gough
[Last edited by carolem - Jan 18, 2018 6:12 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1623078 (17)
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Jan 18, 2018 6:43 AM CST
Daylily cultivars vary in their susceptibility to daylily rust, so not all will get much in the way of spots even in an infected garden. The problem we have is the huge number of daylily cultivars in circulation, which makes it difficult to get reliable ratings for rust resistance for any particular cultivar one might be looking to buy. There are ratings for cultivars here in the NGA daylily database but the ones where only NGA input is taken into account only reflect one person's observations which may or may not indicate genetic resistance/susceptibility so much as environmental influence on the level of disease. There are hybridizers who are working on breeding daylilies resistant to rust, though.
Name: Karen
Southeast PA (Zone 6b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
kousa
Jan 18, 2018 6:57 AM CST
Carole, please don't let my fear stops you from growing daylilies. You will find that daylilies are the most wonderful plants whose diverse blooms will give you so much joy. Let me just put something in perspective here. Even with rust and pests, you can still grow at least 40 of these plants in your garden without too much fuss. My problem is that my number has now increased 10fold so that a significant part of my garden is devoted to daylilies. Imagine seeing rusty plants everywhere you turn to. Though I am sure my situation is not as bad as those in the south parts of the US where daylilies grow year round.
Name: Carole
Lake Macquarie, Australia
Butterflies Bookworm Region: Australia Birds Bee Lover Dragonflies
Garden Photography Salvias Seed Starter Enjoys or suffers hot summers Native Plants and Wildflowers Annuals
Image
carolem
Jan 18, 2018 5:39 PM CST
@kousa Karen yes I might imagine whole gardens of daylilies would become disappointing when faced with a sea of dust spores. Thanks for your input/encouragement Smiling

If you truly love nature, you will find beauty everywhere.

Vincent Van Gough

Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Daylilies forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Member Login:

Username:

Password:

[ Join now ]

Today's site banner is by Fleur569 and is called "Textures"