Sandbox forum: ID question

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Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Foliage Fan Xeriscape Container Gardener Bromeliad
Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator
Image
Baja_Costero
Mar 4, 2018 12:24 PM CST
This looks like Agave asperrima, formerly known as Agave scabra, which is a distinct plant from Agave scabra, formerly known as Manfreda scabra. Confused yet? The internet is! Smiling

Agave asperrima (accepted) = the former Agave scabra
Century Plant (Agave asperrima)

Agave scabra (accepted by CoL) = the former Manfreda scabra


I'm not sure why there is still a separate entry for Manfreda scabra in addition to the entry for Agave scabra derived from it.

Manfreda (Agave scabra)

I'd like to propose moving this image to Agave asperrima and the aloe flower image to the generic Aloe entry, and deleting this entry in the database.

What do you think?
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Mar 4, 2018 12:41 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1652464 (1)
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Mar 4, 2018 1:00 PM CST

Plants Admin

How timely! I had just moved these two images to the Agave scabra entry. I'll delete both because they didn't belong to the original poster anyway.
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Foliage Fan Xeriscape Container Gardener Bromeliad
Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator
Image
Baja_Costero
Mar 4, 2018 1:09 PM CST
Great. I will put some text comments on those two pages to indicate the differences between the two plants.

You will probably see where I tried to create a xMangave earlier today... looks like we already have one for that plant already, oops! Rolling my eyes.

Mangave (Agave 'Pineapple Express')

Since the plant is a hybrid of 2 xMangaves, I don't know if the technically correct Agave would be better than xMangave (since Manfreda is not its own genus any more) to identify the plant. In any case it's definitely not a Manfreda.

Mangave (Agave 'Pineapple Express')
https://www.plantdelights.com/...
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Mar 4, 2018 1:16 PM CST

Plants Admin

If all of the manfredas are now agaves, there's no basis for the xMangave because it's a hybrid of a genus crossed with itself.
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Foliage Fan Xeriscape Container Gardener Bromeliad
Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator
Image
Baja_Costero
Mar 4, 2018 1:30 PM CST
I understand that. As a common name I think Mangave will persist because it's useful (and better without the "x" anyway). Smiling

Here are some plants to reconsider naming, then....

https://garden.org/search/inde...
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Mar 4, 2018 1:32 PM CST

Plants Admin

Yes, I also found all of the xMangaves. I'll rename them Agave, but Dave will have to delete the parent plant.
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Foliage Fan Xeriscape Container Gardener Bromeliad
Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator
Image
Baja_Costero
Mar 4, 2018 1:41 PM CST
Thank You!
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Mar 4, 2018 1:43 PM CST

Plants Admin

I renamed them all Agave and added Mangave and Manfreda as common names to the ones that didn't already list them.
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Foliage Fan Xeriscape Container Gardener Bromeliad
Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator
Image
Baja_Costero
Mar 4, 2018 1:50 PM CST
Yes I saw that. It would be great if you could remove Manfreda from all those entries as a common name. They are only half Manfreda by definition for the most part (the rest is Agave distinct from Manfreda) so Manfreda doesn't work as a common name, or at least it would sound wrong to me, being something else. You decide. Smiling

Should I just propose all those changes directly?
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Mar 4, 2018 1:51 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1652542 (9)
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Mar 4, 2018 1:55 PM CST

Plants Admin

Yes, please propose them. I've already approved two of those proposals.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Mar 4, 2018 1:56 PM CST

Plants Admin

On second thought, don't bother. I can find them easily.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Mar 4, 2018 2:01 PM CST

Plants Admin

The common name Manfreda has been removed from the Mangave entries.
Name: Laurie b
Western Washington (Zone 7b)
Houseplants Region: Pacific Northwest Sedums Orchids Tropicals Region: Mexico
Image
lauriebasler
Mar 26, 2018 4:13 AM CST
Wow, This made my brain hurt. Very nice work both of you.

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