Daylilies forum: If this isn't Smoky Mountain Autumn what could it be?

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Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Organic Gardener Composter Container Gardener Spiders! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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bxncbx
Mar 12, 2018 8:27 AM CST
I purchased this plant as Smoky Mountain Autumn and for years I believed that it was the correct plant. But now I'm having serious doubts. Here's a picture of the flower in question.

Thumb of 2018-03-12/bxncbx/bbe841

Thumb of 2018-03-12/bxncbx/e58a2d
I've noticed that in most of the pictures for SMA the flowers have lots of large ruffles. Mine barely has any. The color also seems off to me but that could be differences in the camera. More importantly, almost all of my stats are off. Below are what they were last year. For those of you who grow SMA, are my stats similar to yours?

Scape Height: 23-30 inches (registered at 18 inches)
Bud count: 11-28
Branching: up to 5-way
Bloom Season: on the late side of midseason but not mid-late (registered as early)
Flower Size: averaged 4.75 inches (registered as 5.25")
Slight fragrance
Diploid
Dormant
Little to no pollen or pod fertility (most crosses don't take but one or two will produce 1-3 seeds on diploids).

I love the plant and have no inclination to remove it. It blooms like crazy and is one of my few that is a good increaser. I'd just like to know what it's true name is. Any help would be appreciated!







Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Mar 12, 2018 9:25 AM CST
I had 'Smoky Mountain Autumn' but it never did well for me and failed to return spring of 2017.( I think it only produced two blooms). I received it again last year from Avedon and have several clumps of it now scattered about, so maybe I can report after it blooms this season hopefully. Not much help till then.
Edited to correct who I received the plants from:
[Last edited by Seedfork - Apr 25, 2018 7:51 AM (+)]
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Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
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blue23rose
Mar 12, 2018 11:43 AM CST
I really don't know what your daylily is, Elena. Besides the ruffles, SMA in the database always seems to have darker colored veining on the petals, but I don't see that in your pictures.

SMA in my garden has been slow to increase and I definitely don't think it gets 5-way branching. I can't say that Smoky Mountain Autumn 'blooms like crazy' in my garden, so whatever you have sounds like a keeper!
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Mar 12, 2018 11:44 AM CST
Thumb of 2018-03-12/Hazelcrestmikeb/02b15d
Smokey Mountain Autumn
Slower increaser here.
Not a whole lot of blooms.
Didn't measure height. If I had to guess I would say about twenty inches tall. I can be more definitive in a few months from now if needed.
Didn't measure blooms. Guess would be 4.5 to 5.
Does bloom towards the later side of midseason.
Fragrance. Never checked. I have to learn to start smelling the roses Rolling on the floor laughing daylilies etc.
Fertility. I remember seeing a few bee pods. Never tried the pollen.
I have no problem gathering more info this season if you would like.
Thumb of 2018-03-12/Hazelcrestmikeb/82c6f0

robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Mar 12, 2018 11:49 AM CST
Vickie we cross post. Our info sound the same.
robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Organic Gardener Composter Container Gardener Spiders! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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bxncbx
Mar 12, 2018 12:04 PM CST
Thanks Vickie & Mike! That is confirming my suspicion that it definitely isn't Smoky Mountain Autumn. But I will say that good increaser for me is adding 3-5 fans a year. Most other people would have numbers considerably higher than that! SMA definitely puts on a show and that is very rare for me. I had almost 100 blooms last year (and have never had a bee pod)! This is why I'm dying to know what it is. I'd love to pass it on (the clump could use dividing) but I'd like to be able to tell people the name.

Larry, Vickie and Mike, if you wouldn't mind just getting some basic stats this year I'd appreciate it. I want to make absolutely sure it isn't SMA before I go re-labeling my garden marker with NOID. Hilarious!
Name: Avedon
NE Tex (Zone 8a)
Daylilies Cat Lover Hummingbirder Region: Texas Salvias Bee Lover
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Avedon
Mar 12, 2018 1:43 PM CST
Thumb of 2018-03-12/Avedon/d44ad5
Smoky Mountain Autumn--blooming September 8

Thumb of 2018-03-12/Avedon/246ed5
Smoky Mountain Autumn--blooming September 20

Smoky Mountain Autumn can be an early bloomer, but I used these pictures to show that it reblooms wonderfully well for us in late summer to fall.

You can get different shaping of the petals as shown here , also the color can vary--but I think your flower is not SMA.

Our plant usually has short scapes less than 20 inches--bloom size is around 5" or a little larger. It doesn't increase all that fast for us.
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Mar 12, 2018 2:01 PM CST
Elena will do.
robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Organic Gardener Composter Container Gardener Spiders! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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bxncbx
Mar 12, 2018 7:16 PM CST
Avedon I've never had my SMA rebloom but that doesn't tell me much. I have a lot of cultivars that rebloom for others but never for me.
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
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blue23rose
Mar 12, 2018 7:51 PM CST
Elena, I have bookmarked this page so hopefully I will find it again when SMA blooms this summer and give an update.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Organic Gardener Composter Container Gardener Spiders! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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bxncbx
Mar 12, 2018 7:56 PM CST
Thanks Vickie & Mike! Mine won't start blooming until June so it'll be awhile for me. I'm not even sure if any fans are up yet. I checked this past weekend but all the ones in that area were covered in snow/ice.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Mar 13, 2018 8:07 AM CST
Here are my developing clumps of 'Smoky Mountain Autumn' as they look now. When I had the plant before it bloomed in early May, but this year it seems things are running a week or two at least behind last year so far. I am looking forward to seeing these new plants bloom, so I think I will be able to remember to post back here when they do. Being I have so many and they are located in different areas I think I should get enough variation in them to be a good comparison with your plants.
Thumb of 2018-03-13/Seedfork/3ce529
Thumb of 2018-03-13/Seedfork/8e5cf4
Thumb of 2018-03-13/Seedfork/23362d
Thumb of 2018-03-13/Seedfork/b857d6
Four different clumps and I have numbered them so I can keep up with them when trying to describe the differences in each clump, but actually I suppose they should all look pretty much the same.

Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Organic Gardener Composter Container Gardener Spiders! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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bxncbx
Mar 13, 2018 9:09 AM CST
I'll try to remember to take pictures of the fans before they have scapes. I usually don't take pictures of the foliage. I think mine matches your clumps but that might be me mis-remembering. I do know the fans of SMA are crowding out Global Affair which has much smaller fans.
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
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blue23rose
Mar 13, 2018 11:08 AM CST
Wow Larry, you got a bunch of SMA. And from the looks of it your garden is a couple of weeks ahead of mine.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Mar 13, 2018 11:19 AM CST
blue23rose,
Edited
These plants actually came from Avedon here on NGA, they are in the same bed as the ones I got form Stilldew.
Looking at the photo 'Smoky Mountain Autumn' is the bunch on the front row on the far left .
Thumb of 2018-03-13/Seedfork/332921

Edited to correct who the plants came from.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Mar 13, 2018 11:42 AM (+)]
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Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Organic Gardener Composter Container Gardener Spiders! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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bxncbx
Apr 23, 2018 12:11 PM CST
@Seedfork just posted a picture of his first bloom of SMA. I'm now pretty positive I have something else. My SMA is slow to open its blooms but they always open and are always perfect. It also has much less ruffling and the color is a more rosy-pink. Also, my SMA blooms fairly late in the season and his season just started.

Now to try and figure out exactly what it is I have!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Apr 23, 2018 12:19 PM CST
@bxncbx
Please make no decision based on that photo of 'Smoky Mountain Autumn', sometimes the weather conditions just are not opportune for a first bloom to open, a second or third bloom I hope will act totally different. We had a very strong thunderstorm last night, so please wait a few more days and I will post some more photos of it. I wanted 'Smoky Mountain Autumn' because of the color and this first bloom is not close to what it should actually look like! As far as ruffling, my first bloom did not open enough yet to make any judgement of ruffling.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Apr 23, 2018 12:36 PM (+)]
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Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Organic Gardener Composter Container Gardener Spiders! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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bxncbx
Apr 23, 2018 1:36 PM CST
Okay, I'll wait to make a judgement. But I can definitely see ruffles on your flower trying to open. Mine don't have any ruffles at that stage.
Name: Diana
Lincoln, NE (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Region: Nebraska Organic Gardener Dog Lover Bookworm
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ShakespearesGarden
Apr 23, 2018 4:02 PM CST
Elena, if @stilldew still has SMA, I'd like to see it in person, get an idea of what to look for. Whatever version you have, I have too and it sounds like no matter what it's name it's gonna stick around. Hurray!
I think I have three fans up from what you sent last spring. Will have to double check.
I'll add my stats to the conversation as the season goes and see what matches.
Scout's motto: Be Prepared...
Name: Susan
Southeast NE (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Lilies Irises Cat Lover Dog Lover
Heucheras Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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stilldew
Apr 24, 2018 5:58 PM CST
I don't think I've ever had SMA, but could be wrong.
[Last edited by stilldew - Apr 24, 2018 8:45 PM (+)]
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