Roses forum: Yikes!!! Palatine Rose bare-roots Arrival Notice - two days!

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Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017
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fwmosher
Apr 11, 2018 8:59 AM CST
Eleven!! -5C last night, but warm front coming through starting today. Perfect timing!!
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Apr 11, 2018 10:22 AM CST
Frank, if you have the space and if they are bare root, just heel them in and they will be fine.

This method of handling roses when it is too cold to plant them out has been used forever. I first read about it in Jack Harkness's book, Roses.

It's much better than biting the bullet and planting them out.

Or you could pot them up and store them in your garage or basement. However, that has you messin' with the roots again when you go to plant them out.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017
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fwmosher
Apr 11, 2018 12:45 PM CST
Lyn good advice, but my problem is now, very shortly I will have to make decisions as to what goes where, with 41 roses on there way toward me, sooner or later! Bring out the butterfly net!! - For Me!! LOL. I have a pink, red(2) and a mixed rose bed, and this year, with a little transplanting and purchases, I will have a "white" rose bed. Very excited!! Going out to weed tulip beds now before the "roses" arrive!
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
Apr 11, 2018 2:15 PM CST
I generally start digging holes about two or three weeks before the roses arrive. Not pretty, but my back is happier for it. I guess the advice is not so useful in this case: maybe next time.

Roses always like a good soaking. One season I put them in a spare bathtub for one or two days before planting. A dark space in a cool garage or basement (that does not actually freeze) can work well for a few more days. One advantage of "heeling them in" is that the roses' canes get some sunlight, they get to dry out, and the roses come to equilibrium with the environment - like putting hardwood flooring in a house for two weeks before nailing it to the floor.

Good luck with the new roses!
When you dance with nature, try not to step on her toes.
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Apr 12, 2018 5:43 AM CST
It's so exciting when a Palatine order arrives! Hurray!

Steve, I've read that multiflora rootstock shouldn't be soaked, but I'm not sure what negative impact that can have. I'd received a Palatine order a couple of years ago and had put them in to soak when I read that on a thread here, then I ran and pulled them out of the water and wrapped them back up.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
Apr 12, 2018 7:05 AM CST
That's good to know, Neal.

My practice here is to soak roses in the ground. I follow the advice given on a flyer that shipped with J&P roses decades ago: Place the rose in the hole, fill halfway with soil. Fill with water. Wait for the water to soak in. Repeat. Fill with dirt and water again. This seems to dampen the soil in the vicinity of the rose pretty well.Then I try to water generously three or four times a week until the canes have grown appreciably.

My own Palatine roses went into the ground almost two weeks ago and a few of them are setting leaves very vigorously. I find that multiflora rootstock seems to send out leaves a week or two sooner than Dr. Huey rootstock here. Roses from Regan delivered two weeks earlier are half a week behind in setting foliage. In years where there are late frosts, this is a benefit to HT roses. To more hardy rose cultivars, setting foliage earlier just makes for a longer growing season; so multiflora is better.

Palatine roses always arrive here heavy for their size and evidently well hydrated. (I always pay for three day air.) If I plant them promptly, the mortality rate is nearly zero. But they can dry out quickly. This year I left just one to plant on the second day. But I had not carefully sealed the plastic bag it came in and I think that failure might have finished off the plant. In cooler climates with higher humidity the outcome might have been very different.
When you dance with nature, try not to step on her toes.
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017
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fwmosher
Apr 12, 2018 8:46 AM CST
Gemeni_sage: One should always soak bare-root roses after receiving same-always - because they dehydrate during shipment. About four hours minimum. (Ironically, just as I was typing this I heard a delivery truck outside, and voila - my Palantine Rose shipment!!) Yahooooooo!!! It's off to work I go!!! Have to use a jackhammer-ground frozen this morning! LOL.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
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CindiKS
Apr 12, 2018 9:13 AM CST
I am a lazy gardener, so I put the bare root roses into a large rubbermaid tub and fill the tub with a new bag of potting soil. They stay there until I am ready to plant. Sometimes I loosely cover the whole shebang with the plastic bag the roses shipped in, and that causes enough humidity to force them to break dormancy. I wouldn't do that if I couldn't plant in the next week or so, though.
My Palatine roses came in November, and our wacky weather roller coaster has killed off 2, maybe 3 of them. I'm leaving them in the ground, though, because sometimes they do come back from apparent death.
Frank, when you get a moment, could you tell us what all you got? Lovey dubby
Palatine's roses are the BEST! Hurray!
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017
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fwmosher
Apr 12, 2018 10:36 AM CST
Cindi:

1 Julia Child (not that hardy but possible Photo Contest entry"
1 Desmond Tutu Sunbelt (same as above)
2 Cl. Golden Gate (hardy, yellow, simply stunning)
2 Cl. Florentina Arborose (hardy, red)
2 HT. Grande Amore (hardy, red)
1 HT. Folklore (hardy, kinda orange, possible Photo Contest entry")
2 CL. Dublin Bay (very hardy, beautiful, red)

Only 30 more on order, different sources, plus a few I always "feel sorry for" and buy through the chains. Note: If you can ever find "Sunshine Daydream" or any of the "Carpet" roses, but them. Put in the ground and ignore except for water. Cheers!
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Apr 12, 2018 12:59 PM CST
I typically get them planted quickly, and I use the method Steve mentioned above, filling the hole with water. Usually I have them all in a tub soaking while I dig the holes, just to make sure the roots don't dry out from wind during that time. Palatine roses always take off quickly- they're my favorite source.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Amanda
KC metro area, Missouri (Zone 6a)
Roses Zinnias Region: Missouri Cat Lover Dog Lover Bookworm
Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: United States of America Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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pepper23
Apr 12, 2018 4:48 PM CST
Neal, love your new avatar!!! Best one yet!!

I lost all but 3 or 4 roses for sure this year. Grumbling I need to order more but I'm undecided on which ones I want. Hilarious!
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
Apr 12, 2018 5:02 PM CST
I'm sorry to hear about your rose losses, Amanda. And I hope their replacements fare better - living long enough to depart on your terms. Crossing Fingers!
When you dance with nature, try not to step on her toes.
Name: Amanda
KC metro area, Missouri (Zone 6a)
Roses Zinnias Region: Missouri Cat Lover Dog Lover Bookworm
Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: United States of America Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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pepper23
Apr 12, 2018 5:54 PM CST
Replacements will be own root and hardy to 5a or colder. nodding
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Apr 12, 2018 8:19 PM CST
https://palatineroses.com/rece...
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Apr 12, 2018 9:10 PM CST

Moderator

The current soaking instructions in your link, Margie, seem so bizarre because Palatine used to caution against soaking multiflora rootstock, warning that if the bare-root roses were to be soaked, the soaking should not last more than half an hour. Hortico, which also uses multiflora rootstock, still recommends only 20 minutes of soaking, and in muddy water rather than clear water.
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017
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fwmosher
Apr 12, 2018 9:38 PM CST
If one watched Margie's clip of Palatine roses and soaking instructions, that is it - 10 to 12 hours the grower recommends. Fail to do so, don't go back after the Grower because roses died. I have a philosophy, if they arrived "alive", that's it. The rest is up to you, and any growers who offer a year's warranty on roses, do not have to, and should not. Just check this posting, recommendations all over the place, with only one resembling Palantine's instructions on soaking. Pretty sad!
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Apr 12, 2018 10:01 PM CST
I received my very first order from Palatine's on April 2014. I have been following their video planting instructions since that date.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Apr 12, 2018 11:24 PM CST

Moderator

I placed my first order from Palatine in 2006, the first year they started sending roses to the United States by mail, and I kept ordering from them every year until this year. I have never soaked any Palatine bare-root roses and they've all grown beautifully, but I've always had them delivered in November and I always tried to plant them the day they arrived. Maybe they dry out in storage by spring, or maybe they profited from our rainy season, which almost always begins in November. Whatever the reason, they've done well here without soaking.
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Apr 13, 2018 4:49 AM CST
I've only used the old instructions with my orders from Palatine, the short soak, and my plants were received in April each time. All performed beautifully. Good to know I don't have to worry about giving them a longer soak though, it's much more convenient if I'm not finishing planting that day to simply leave them soaking.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
Apr 13, 2018 8:40 AM CST
Frank, the issue is not whether a person follows the instructions! The issue is whether a person has a set of procedures that work: a set of procedures that keep the rose alive. Zuzu evidently has procedures that work for her where she gardens. Instructions are something like travel directions to get from one place in Manhattan to another. There are probably two or five or twenty eight effective ways to do it, given the conditions. And millions of ineffective ways like flying to Peoria, mounting a donkey and going south. It really would not matter which part of Manhattan one wanted to end up in, this would pretty much assure that, without a change of strategy you never would. The crucial thing is having an effective plan. In this case the requirement is that the plant does not dry out.

"Dry out" can mean different things to different people. But from the perspective of the plant, it is how much moisture (water, H2O) held in the cells of the plant. The moment any part of the surface gets dry to the touch, the rose starts losing moisture. So one proxy for "don't let the rose dry out" is "never let the surface dry." Of course there are other ways to do it. I learned this year that if I was to keep a Palatine rose overnight I needed to carefully seal it in a bag, prefereably with extra water. I left just one rose loosely wrapped in a plastic bag and it had lost so much moisture by the next morning it had begun to change color. I'm guessing I will lose it. I'm also pretty sure that if I had done exactly the same thing after soaking the rose for 24 hours exactly the same thing would have happened. So one lesson is that if you live where daytime weather is warm and dry, you want to get your roses into the ground the day they arrive.

Not all rose distributors send out well-hydrated roses with equal effectiveness. Palatine is highly effective at it. Judging from my experience last year, Edumunds is at the other end of the spectrum. Some of the roses I received from them last year were not viable, no matter how long they were soaked, IMO.

I should point out that the rose neither knows nor cares whether the moisture entering the roots is held in the proximity to the roots by a plastic bag, a bucket, a bathtub, a large brewing vat, a hole-free planter, an inverted umbrella, or a hole in the ground. What does matter is that there is enough moisture for the rose to do all the things that it needs to do, like open its stoma to take up CO2, make leaves, canes, and roots, and so on. It starts out being a little handicapped by virtue of the fact that the tiny fibers that make roots most effective are destroyed during transplant processes. So one needs to be a maniac about keeping the roots moist until these fibers develop.

I was able to predict last year which roses from Edmunds were likely to fail simply by noting whether the rose plants in question felt heavy and dense - whether they felt well hydrated on arrival. I complained in one rose formun here long before it died that one Papa Meillaind, though huge was very light, as if desiccated. It quickly died.

Soaking is not the end. It is a means to an end. And there are many good ways to hydrate a rose. Following the instructions is probably a good way. But if you live in a place like I do where springtime humidity hovers aroun 15% for five months straight, and there is no rain, you can soak your roses until the cows come home, but if you do not water like a maniac for at least thirty days after the rose has begun to vigorously set new foliage and grow canes, the rose will die from lack of moisture. My guess is that in maritime Nova Scotia drying out after planting will be much less of a problem. When I lived in NJ I spent very little time watering roses after they were watered into the ground at the time of planting. Most of my losses were from disease, not drought. If you are planting roses where you plan never to add supplemental water, a good soak may be enough to give them the edge they would need to survive. But it would be safer to be prepared to deliver supplemental water for them until they are established.
When you dance with nature, try not to step on her toes.

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