Irises forum: Our Favorite Plicatas

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Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Feb 20, 2012 12:38 PM CST
I don't have quality pictures of some of my favorite plicatas, but here are few to start things rolling!


Ball Masque and Brazen Beauty

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Broadband and Kid's Clothes

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Rare Treat and Walk This Way

Confidant and Degas Dancer


Rock Star and Siva Siva
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Name: Dot or Dorothy Parker
Fort Worth TX (Zone 8a)
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Ladylovingdove
Feb 20, 2012 12:53 PM CST
Great pictures, thanks for posting. Don't you just love Kid's Clothes? I posted it also, I didn't think it was that widely grown.

I'm sorry, I saw Betty's post about starting a plicata thread and was bored and thought I would do it. We posted at the same time so maybe someone can combine the 2 posts.

Dot
[Last edited by Ladylovingdove - Feb 20, 2012 1:00 PM (+)]
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Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Feb 20, 2012 1:00 PM CST
Yes, I love Kid's clothes, like the little specks in the standards. One of my favorites is Brilliant Idea, but I don't have a pic that is good enough to share. Maybe someone else has one.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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KentPfeiffer
Feb 20, 2012 1:22 PM CST

Moderator

For what it is worth, Brilliant Idea isn't technically a plicata, even though it looks like one. It is commonly called the "Emma Cook" pattern, basically a type of amoena. Queen's Circle is perhaps the most famous modern example of an iris with the Emma Cook pattern (and a grandparent of Brilliant Idea).

http://wiki.irises.org/bin/view/TbAthruE/TbEmmaCook
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Feb 20, 2012 1:40 PM CST
Thanks Kent, as I was outside just now checking out my beds, I was wondering about Brilliant Idea since it has those white standards, then you cleared that up for me. I have never heard of the "Emma Cook" pattern before. Never too old to learn. Speaking of checking out the beds. It's Feb. and here in Wisconsin, I have tulips coming up, reserection lilies sprouting, dutch iris that have been coming up since Dec. the apple tree's buds are swelling! I'm really worried that things will get started, and then we will get the typical winter weather back and mess things up. Oh well, guess we can't do much about that.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
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Calif_Sue
Feb 20, 2012 2:20 PM CST

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Tom, fabulous pictures, I hope you add them to the database, many are without pictures like Kid's Clothes!
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Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
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irisarian
Feb 21, 2012 10:26 AM CST
I don't have plicata pictures, but SDB 'Chubby Cheeks ia a great parent, although there are plics with more intense markings. The 'Emma Cook' pattern comes in several color although the blue rim around the falls is the mot common. The pattern was named after an early flower with that pattern.
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Feb 21, 2012 11:06 AM CST
So is Degas Dancer one of the "Emma Cook" pattern? It's standards are nearly white, a slite bit of purple. So much to learn.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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KentPfeiffer
Feb 21, 2012 12:54 PM CST

Moderator

Degas Dancer is a plicata. Hopefully, someone else will come along and explain this far more accurately that I can. When talking about color patterns, bearded iris can be separated into two groups: plicatas (plus some patterns derived from plicata breeding like luminatas and glaciatas) and everything else.

Plicatas typically have petals with a white, or at least light colored, ground with a darker color dotted, stippled, or stitched around the edges. Rare Treat is a very traditional looking plicata. You can see how it looks almost like someone stitched the color onto the falls.


However, the variations are almost endless. In some varieties, the dark markings are so heavy that you can barely see the ground color and it almost looks like a self (like Circle Of Light pictured below).


It is possible for a plicata to have white, or nearly so, standards and plicata markings on the falls. Degas Dancer is an example of that. Some varieties have no markings at all (Clear Choice pictured below). These are often called glaciatas.
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"Emma Cook" iris are not derived from plicata breeding. Instead, they were developed from traditional amoena breeding.The genes that create plicata markings are completely different than the genes that create rim of color on an iris like Brilliant Idea. If you look closely at Brilliant Idea, you'll notice that the blue rim on the falls doesn't have that "stitched on" look that you typically see in a plicata.

It's often hard to draw the line between amoena and Emma Cook patterns. Queen's Circle is a classic Emma Cook. Passion And Purity is a traditional amoena, but what about Stage Presence?

Queen's Circle
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Passion And Purity
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Stage Presence
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[Last edited by KentPfeiffer - Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM (+)]
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Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Feb 21, 2012 1:47 PM CST
Kent, Thanks for your interesting information. I would guess then that to determine a classification for Stage Presence, you would have to check the parentage to determine the genotype. But if you cross a plicata with an amoena, would it not be possible to have the offspring exhibit both characteristics? Gypsy Lord comes to mind..having the white zone, plus the edge of a different color, and I think it has a white standard. God, it's been decades since my genetics class in college, lol. Tom
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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KentPfeiffer
Feb 21, 2012 3:17 PM CST

Moderator

Stage Presence comes from Dancing Star X Snapshot. In turn, Dancing Star comes from Queen's Circle X Starring and Snapshot comes from Bold Vision X Next Millennium. Starring and Next Millennium would pretty typically be described as amoenas. Queen's Circle and Bold Vision would pretty typically be described as representing the Emma Cook pattern. Not surprisingly, Stage Presence is sort of intermediate between a classical amoena and a classical Emma Cook, so what you call it becomes somewhat subjective.

Gypsy Lord is similar in that it doesn't have any plicata heritage and could be described as an amoena or an Emma Cook depending on where you draw the line between the two patterns. As I said before, the Emma Cook pattern was derived from amoena breeding (and iris of both patterns are commonly crossed with each other) so it shouldn't be surprising that the line between them is pretty fuzzy.

I was always told that you shouldn't cross plicatas with regular (for lack of a better word) irises, but I see more and more showing up in the registry that do involve plicatas crossed to other types. For example, Alpine Harmony has a plicata (a sibling to Charleston) in its ancestry, not that you could tell by looking at it:


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Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
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irisarian
Feb 21, 2012 3:20 PM CST
plicatas are mianly recessives. Gennetics are different for each type of plant or animal I bet they don't do iris genetics in college. They don't seem to get past sweet peas.
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Feb 22, 2012 6:50 AM CST
So there can be a wide range in the amount of white in the background of a plicata. I wonder if there is another modifying gene that controls the amount of white exhibited? Then what do you call those like Tuscan Summer, that has the yellow background. Is it also a plicata, or is there another name for these? If plicata is a true recessive gene, then you would always get one if you crossed two of them together. The more I learn, the less I know.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
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irisarian
Feb 22, 2012 8:47 AM CST
Some plicatas have a yellow ground. the term refers to the darker markings on the light background. there are several modifiers with appear to cause the distribution of the darker color. It is much too complicated to put out in a couple short sentances.
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Feb 22, 2012 11:49 AM CST
Thanks Lucy, maybe we should start an Iris Genetics fror Dummies forum, where beginners like me can ask questions.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
irises
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irisarian
Feb 22, 2012 12:49 PM CST
Perhaps people could look up colors in 'The World of Irises'. It is available from AIS for $18. The color which are showing up have been hidden inside the flowers for a long time. I think most people just want to know what they are. How to get them is a different story.
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
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Betja
Feb 22, 2012 7:49 PM CST
INK PATTERNS - My favorite plicata - So cute and perky!
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FRENCH RIVIERA - My second favorite! (Could this be a variegata plicata?)
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WEDDING NIGHT
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BRIGHT SUNSHINY DAY
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DOUBLE DOWN
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BARBARA MAY
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HIGH OCTANE
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MUSICIAN and CLASS RING
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OUT OF THE DARK and MADE YOU LOOK (An amoena plicata?)
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STEPPING OUT - Dykes Medal Winner - An oldie but goodie!
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PSYCHIC READER
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CHEAP FRILLS - 1st and 2nd day pictures in my garden, and huge clump at Mid-America.
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TUNNEL VISION
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FIRST STITCH
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TUSCAN SUMMER and Border Bearded JAGUAR
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Betty
Name: Brad
iowa (Zone 5a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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ARUBA1334
Feb 22, 2012 9:14 PM CST
Betty I like High Octane and Class Ring and Tuscan Summer looks really bright the pictures I have seen of it before did not do it justice it really stands out and glows a great color contrast. Kieth has a picture of a new Plicata on the front of his catalog this year Betty called Volcanic Glow did you by chance see it when you were in Oregon and did you get a picture of it looks to be another good one.
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
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Betja
Feb 22, 2012 10:36 PM CST
No, I didn't see VOLCANIC GLOW when I was up there in 2010, but I've ordered it for my sister. She loves those colors so much that I couldn't resist. Didn't you say you're planning on going to Salem this spring? I don't know if you've been to Keith Keppel's before, but I think going to his garden is a must if you're going to that area. And hopefully you could see a whole bunch of VOLCANIC GLOW's in bloom -- and get pictures to share with us!!!

When I was there in 2010 everything was pretty waterlogged, so you can just imagine how TUSCAN SUMMER could have looked with a little better weather! It is very bright and wonderful.

Betty
Name: Brad
iowa (Zone 5a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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ARUBA1334
Feb 22, 2012 11:15 PM CST
Moonlit Water



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Dialect

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Change Of Pace

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Entangled

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Going My Way

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Glo Ray Hallelujah

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Classic Look

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Hi There Gorgeous

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Stepping Out

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Cajun Ryhthm

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