Daylilies forum: What do you think my CHILD will look like - Prediction Game #4?

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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Apr 23, 2018 6:30 PM CST
Here is another guessing game for everyone to predict what the very first bloom will look like. This is a 2-for-1. These two buds are on sibling seedlings. This is the first time ever that they have bloomed.

These 2 buds are different seedlings from the same cross: I'm So Blue x Journey of Magic.
Pod Parent: I'm So Blue


Pollen Parent: Journey of Magic


SSS48:
Thumb of 2018-04-24/beckygardener/080153

SSS51:
Thumb of 2018-04-24/beckygardener/9801c0

So what do you think? Buds may open tomorrow or Wednesday. Thumbs up
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Apr 23, 2018 6:31 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1691212 (1)
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
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bxncbx
Apr 23, 2018 6:41 PM CST
Yeah, another game! Hurray!

I looked at the picture of about to open buds for JOM & they aren't as pinkish as your seedlings. So I'm guessing they'll look more like ISB for petal color but I think the edge will be more like JOM for at least one seedling. And I hope one seedling gets the patterned eye!
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
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blue23rose
Apr 23, 2018 7:50 PM CST
Here goes: SSS48 - color will be like ISB. SSS51 - color like JOM. Both with that big purple eye and edge!
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
Windswept Farm & Gardens
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kidfishing
Apr 23, 2018 8:08 PM CST
I think you will have double color edges of violet and cream with violet purple eye on flesh pink blooms. Looks like you will have some fancy seedling to make new crosses.
Kidfishing
Name: Stan
Florida Panhandle (Defuniak Sp (Zone 8b)
Region: Florida Region: Gulf Coast Enjoys or suffers hot summers Daylilies Lilies Keeps Horses
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GaNinFl
Apr 24, 2018 1:10 PM CST
Okay, throwing my hat in on this guessing game.

I agree with Terry, but I'm going to add a cream colored raised midrib.
Stan
(Georgia Native in Florida)
http://garden.org/blogs/view/G...
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Apr 24, 2018 9:02 PM CST
The seeds from this cross were a gift that I received in Fall 2015. So these seedlings are approx. 2 years old. Both produced their first blooms today!

SSS48 - (I'm So Blue x Journey of Magic):

Stats:
Thumb of 2018-04-25/beckygardener/a88d0f

Bloom (which did not open up very well for some reason):
Thumb of 2018-04-25/beckygardener/28e920
I have my doubts about this being the accurate cross. I am thinking it was a seed from a bee pod or mislabeled. You would think that an eye would be apparent coming from the pod parent. But who knows what is in the genetics?

SSS51 - (I'm So Blue x Journey of Magic):
Stats:
Thumb of 2018-04-25/beckygardener/5a628e
Bloom:
Thumb of 2018-04-25/beckygardener/a77225
This one does appear to likely be this particular cross. But who knows, right? Opened beautifully! (I should have moved the solar light that showed up in the right hand corner of the photo.)

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Apr 24, 2018 9:41 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1692181 (6)
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Apr 24, 2018 9:31 PM CST
I did a little genetic background check. On the pollen side "Journey of Magic". This cultivar has Alexa Kathryn as a great-grandparent (in a genetic seedling of Royal Cypher).

Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Alexa Kathryn')

Is it possible that this particular gene came through all those others genes that exhibited a prominent eye to produce SSS48? Could that actually happen? Especially given the fact that the pod parent to this cross is I'm So Blue with a very prominent large dark eye.

Or could it be a mislabeled seed? Or could it be a bee pod?

And do you think SSS51 is also a product of this particular cross?

What do you think?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Apr 24, 2018 9:42 PM (+)]
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Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
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bxncbx
Apr 25, 2018 7:46 AM CST
This raises a question I've been pondering myself. Are daylilies like cats? Can you have multiple pod parents in one pod? Any litter of kittens can have multiple fathers. Even if I make sure to do a cross before the bees can I be 100% sure that if a bee does visit later that any pollen it leaves can't also make a seed in the pod? I don't cover the flowers that I cross to prevent bees from visiting. Perhaps I should.

I haven't had enough seedlings bloom to tell but I suspect eyes are dominant. I've had two seedlings from a Fiji bee pod bloom and both have eyes. Neither one looks remotely like Fiji or each other. I'm hoping the third seedling blooms this year. I'm not sure what color it will be but I'm pretty sure it'll have an eye.
Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
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Scatterbrain
Apr 25, 2018 8:00 AM CST
If you look at human siblings though, they can be VERY different, even though the parents are the same, all my immediate family are black haired and brown eyed but I have golden brown hair and blue eyes, same as my grandfather. My sisters both married dark haired men but out of 6 nephews and nieces, 5 are blue eyed blondes!!

Don't know if it is the same with daylilies but esp.with tets I would think that you have a very large number of possibilities in how various genes are passed on.
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
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bxncbx
Apr 25, 2018 9:20 AM CST
I hope I get a lot of new seedlings to bloom this year then because so far almost all of my seedlings are boring! They look like one or the other parent or a mix of the two. The Fiji seedlings are bee pods so there is no way to know if they resemble the pollen parent (although I have some suspicions on who that might be).

I really want a crazy seedling that I'd never expect! Unfortunately most of the seedlings I started at first were bee pods or crosses with NOIDs. This should be the first year I have planned crosses with named parents bloom. Now I just wish I'd made some more exotic crosses!
Name: Tim
West Chicago, IL (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower
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Lyshack
Apr 25, 2018 8:03 PM CST
I notice one of the grand parents of Journey of Magic is called Blue Eden, which doesn't look too dissimilar to SSS48. I don't have much experience at this, though, so I don't know if you would expect a small percentage of I'm So Blue x Journey of Magic seedlings to look like that grandparent.

Also, the first time Painted Palace opened for me, it looked a lot like your bloom... underdeveloped, not fully opened, and no sign of the eye. Maybe SSS48 will develop some more characteristics when it matures enough to open fully down the road.

Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Blue Eden')

I have enjoyed following along with these games, Becky! Hurray!
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Apr 25, 2018 9:34 PM CST
Thanks for the comments! Y'all have posted some things to ponder. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to do a genetic test on the parents and the seedlings to verify parentage. (Not going to happen, btw.)

I did create a Pedigree Chart for this "possible" cross:

Thumb of 2018-04-26/beckygardener/645051

I wish I could fill in ALL the photos to see if any of those unpictured seedlings might resemble my children.

I don't know.... anyone care to comment further after looking at the pedigree chart?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Apr 25, 2018 9:37 PM (+)]
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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Apr 25, 2018 9:42 PM CST
Tim and all - I will post a new photo of SSS48 should I get a bloom that opens up completely.

I think SSS51 is a cross of those parents. Just not sure where the color of the petals come from.... ????

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
Dog Lover Cat Lover Rabbit Keeper Container Gardener
Scatterbrain
Apr 26, 2018 7:58 AM CST
The first one (SSS48) looks to have a colour that is part way between Lavender Blue Baby and Blue Eden so maybe inherited that way.

As regards SSS51, I think cream is genetically yellow so pink (from Lavender Blue Baby or Blue Eden) combined with yellow (cream) possibly makes the peach colour? I don't know if colours are dominant, recessive or dilute in daylilies in the same way as they are with mammals, maybe Maurice (adamad on here) can advise.
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
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bxncbx
Apr 26, 2018 9:04 AM CST
Okay, I think my eyes are messed up. To me SSS51 looks pink, not peach. But I also have/had daylilies that were registered as orange or peach that were obviously pink to me (Fiji for example). I know colors can change with environmental differences but I wouldn't have thought they'd change that much! I can also have a problem telling apart lavender and pink sometimes.

From your chart it looks to me like Ruffles Have Ripples and Blue Eden are pinkish so that could be where the color comes from. I really like it and hope the eye starts to form a pattern!

I'm guessing SSS48 takes after the parent(s) of Journey of Magic (especially with the lighter ruffled edge instead of the dark purple one). But to me the color looks very similar to Lavender Blue Baby.

If I ever get a cross to bloom where I know the parents/grandparents/great-grandparents I'll have to make a pedigree chart too! Mine won't look anywhere near as nice as yours but they really are helpful.
Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
Dog Lover Cat Lover Rabbit Keeper Container Gardener
Scatterbrain
Apr 26, 2018 9:07 AM CST
Might be my monitor making it look peach, Becky and Elena!
[Last edited by Scatterbrain - Apr 26, 2018 9:09 AM (+)]
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Name: Tim
West Chicago, IL (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Vegetable Grower
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Lyshack
Apr 26, 2018 11:54 AM CST
One more thing I noticed. Journey of Magic has two children. One, Intricate by Design, is a cream color with an edge and an eye like SSS51. The other, Matrons of Honor, is a pink color like SSS48, with a narrow halo/watermark like Blue Eden. You just never know.

Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Intricate by Design')

Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Matrons of Honor')

Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Apr 26, 2018 9:58 PM CST
Tim - Interesting seedlings of Journey of Magic. But you never know if those traits came from the other parent of each of those crosses.

I really don't know if I believe that SSS48 is a child of this cross. I just can't imagine it not having an eye of some sort. SSS51 does have an eye and the form looks like it could be from this cross.

Elena - SSS51 is a pale peach color. It could be your computer monitor adjustment causing it to look more pink color.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Apr 26, 2018 9:59 PM (+)]
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Name: Christie
43016 (Zone 6b)
Plays in the water.
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cwhitt
Apr 27, 2018 7:58 AM CST
bxncbx said:This raises a question I've been pondering myself. Are daylilies like cats? Can you have multiple pod parents in one pod? Any litter of kittens can have multiple fathers. Even if I make sure to do a cross before the bees can I be 100% sure that if a bee does visit later that any pollen it leaves can't also make a seed in the pod? I don't cover the flowers that I cross to prevent bees from visiting. Perhaps I should.

Yes, a pod can have multiple "fathers". Each grain of pollen forms it's own pollen tube, to travel up and make a seed. This is the reason they suggest emasculating the flower when pollinating it, and then also covering it from visiting bees after pollinating it. Right now I have a pod (Amaryllis) forming that has 2 fathers - so I really will not know which baby came from which father.
Plant Dreams. Pull Weeds. Grow A Happy Life.
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Organic Gardener Composter Container Gardener Spiders! Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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bxncbx
Apr 27, 2018 8:18 AM CST
Becky, I really think it's my eyes since in real life I get the two confused if the colors are very pale. But I do know that when I upload pictures to this site the colors tend to change slightly.

Christie, I guess I should cover the flowers after pollinating but since I do it right before I go to work that isn't going to happen. I already have to get up an hour earlier to do the crosses! I try to put a LOT of pollen on each flower so that the chances are much less that bee pollen will take.

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