Roses forum: Sad...2 more gone.

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kkochenber
Apr 24, 2018 11:02 AM CST
Two more gone to Rosette. That makes 5 total from this year and last year. I have about 20 roses left (different varieties). I'm so sad. They were blooming beautifully. I read that you should probably remove other roses that were close to the ones that the disease appeared on, even if there is no apparent signs of the disease. I sure don't want to do that! Sigh...... I was driving past an office building and noticed a large planting of Knock outs that I could tell from my car was heavily infected. I do want to be responsible in trying to control this outbreak but it sure is going to hurt. Opinions needed. Should I take out healthy adjacent plants now?
Thumb of 2018-04-24/kkochenber/c12872

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Apr 24, 2018 11:07 AM CST
I would not remove any more. Are you sure those pictured are infected? Not all vigorous red growth is Rosette.
Porkpal

kkochenber
Apr 24, 2018 11:18 AM CST
Oh yes....Unfortunately we are having a wide spread outbreak here. I waited until this year to be sure on the one dk. pink one. Rapid red new growth was very deformed and thorny. As I said I lost 3 last year. Sighing!
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017 Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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fwmosher
Apr 25, 2018 9:31 AM CST
I am not denying for one second, that RRD does not exist! Nor am I denying that you obviously appear very capable of making the diagnoses.Where I have an issue, and this may not apply to you, is "the sky is falling" philosophy, in this case, that all roses are going to succumb to RRD if they are anywhere near each other? My brother has a photo on his wall, that shows hundreds of sheep walking over a cliff to their death, and one sheep, going the opposite direction, with the little baloon caption over it's head saying: "excuse me, excuse me". That's my philosophy. Here is what we know about RRD (encapsulated for brevity sake): Everyone agrees it is spread by a virus carried by a non-flying mite, but there is not one scientific study ever carried out that proves same; studies on the virus being transmitted via cloning, budding, etc. are all over the place, with no definitive answer; a claim that Week's Roses has a grower in California growing out an RRD resistent/proof rose has yet to be subjected to peer review, and on and on. The point I am trying to make, is that we are so influenced by the media, cases in point: deer tics, shingles, and on and on, that sometimes we should just drop back 10 yards and punt. Just say, "excuse me, excuse me". Rose Mosaic Disease, RMD was the cause of my loss of a lot of roses over the years, most if not all from nurseries in Texas, exercising poor breeding techniques. My suggestion for what it is worth: Take the roses you have identified as having RRD, make a special bed for same, away from your "untainted" roses, and see what happens-BUT, I would not start uprooting adjacent roses and moving same. The science is weak or non-existent on doing so. In my long years of growing roses, RRD has shown up on ocassion, but never muliiplied like a "plague". Just my opinion, just trying to help. Cheers!
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
May 3, 2018 8:31 AM CST
Yes. It is easy to panic when a rose disease shows up. There are times when that's a good thing to do, and times when it is not. In my own garden I need to take fungal diseases very seriously because they spread quickly and can be quite devastating. RRD does travel more slowly; but evidently it is devastating to a number of rose cultivars.

I think maybe you mean poor propagation and sanitation practices, not poor breeding practices on the part of plant propagators in TX. Certainly if a person responsible for budding thousands of roses an hour cuts into an infected rose he could infect potentially dozens or hundreds (maybe thousands) of roses with sap carried on the instruments being used.

As you know, the mites are pretty small. So the fact that the mite cannot fly is not enough to guarantee that it is not carried several yards away in a stiff wind. I would suggest that a natural disease that is spread by no natural vectors is probably no threat whatsoever. So even if the mites are not so efficient as the reckless rose propagator, they may still be threat.

I think the idea of sequestering diseased roses is a great idea when one has a large farm and the infected cultivar is difficult to replace because it has gone out of commerce. I'm not sure I'd do it for a Knockout on a 1/3 acre suburban plot.
When you dance with nature, try not to step on her toes.
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017 Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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fwmosher
May 3, 2018 9:24 AM CST
Steve812: I am restating that a number of huge rose grow out nurseries in Texas, were named as "guilty" in poor "breeding" rose habits, to the extent that they had to destroy their entire fields, and start over again. Common knowledge! Not about spreading disease by knife cuttings, but starting with "diseased" stock, and propagating thousands of roses with same! "I think you mean poor propagation and sanitation practices, not poor breeding practices on the part of plant propagators in Texas". No Steve, with all due respect, I meant exactly what I said! I am not aware of the posters available gardening area, but if there is a space for putting in a couple roses with suspected RRD, it would surely be worth the effort, if for no other reason, then to confirm the diagnosis. The poster mentioned driving by a city plot and noticing that the "Knockout" roses were "seriously infected" with RRD. I do have a major problem with that statement, in that making a diagnosis of RRD while driving by, is far beyond my capabilities! Cheers!
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
May 3, 2018 9:38 AM CST
I think you will find that starting with diseased root stock is actually a propagation problem, not a breeding problem.
When you dance with nature, try not to step on her toes.
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017 Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
fwmosher
May 3, 2018 10:22 AM CST
Steve812: I am trying to rationally discuss the RRD issue initially posted, trying to suggest that us rose lovers not blow the issue out of proportion, whereas it appears that you are more intent on "semantics" and in critiquing me, than constructively adding to the discussion. Case in point: "I think you will find that starting with diseased rootstock is actually a propagation problem, not a breeding problem". On the contrary I respectfully submit, that there is no problem in propagating on diseased rootstock, easily done, and one can propagate millions or until the "cows come home." It is only later when the grown out versions are presented to us "Consumers" that the "bad breeding problem" arises. Kordes, Austin, Radler etc. were/are great Rose Breeders, constantly trying to breed out unwanted characteristics, and breed in disease resistance, and on and on. Let's keep on topic and enjoy growing Roses! ( I will of course, now be condemned by "the powers that be" for addressing this issue.) Pity.
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
May 9, 2018 7:55 AM CST
kkochenber, I lost several roses to RRD about 10 years ago when I first moved to this home. Over time I found the diseased multifloras on the property where RRD was spreading from and removed them and my infected plants. Quite a few of the roses I was growing at that time remained healthy and are growing fine today, and most were growing in pretty close proximity to infected plants. So I would allow those that appear healthy to remain until you see symptoms, perhaps those are simply more resistant. I waited about 3 years without seeing any new cases of infection before I started adding new roses to the garden again. So far, so good. Crossing Fingers!

Here in Winchester I started seeing lots of cases of RRD in Knockout roses in municipal and business landscapes as well as in home gardens back when I was having such issues with it. I don't intend to be argumentative, but many of those cases were so obvious and severe that I could indeed see that the plants were infected while simply driving by. A couple of years ago we had record breaking cold temperatures and that seemed to take out most of the diseased plants in this area. RRD lessens the cold hardiness of a rose. Since then I've not been seeing many cases of it in the area.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi

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