Plant ID forum: Help identify

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Las Vegas, NV (Zone 9a)
VEGAS702
Apr 25, 2018 1:11 PM CST
Hi guys I brought a sapling back from middle Tennessee. Not sure what type it is.

Thanks guys Acorn Confused
Thumb of 2018-04-25/VEGAS702/89a33c
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-VEGAS702-
[Last edited by VEGAS702 - Apr 25, 2018 1:13 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1692661 (1)
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
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quercusnut
Apr 26, 2018 2:34 AM CST
I'm thinking Wafer Ash -- Ptelea trifoliata. Not sure though.
Perthshire. SCOTLAND. UK
Region: United Kingdom Garden Photography Plant Identifier
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Silversurfer
Apr 26, 2018 2:41 AM CST
Ptelea trifoliata leaves are always in 3's which does not fit with mystery tree pic 3 as posted by VEGAS702


https://www.google.co.uk/searc...:
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
Hostas Foliage Fan Bromeliad Heucheras Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds
Image
quercusnut
Apr 26, 2018 2:46 AM CST
Actually they can have five.
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
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Leftwood
Apr 26, 2018 11:16 AM CST
quercusnut: Show me, or show me where it says a Ptelea TRIfoliata can have almost every leaf have 5 leaflets.
It was a good guess, though.

I was thinking Zanthoxylum, except the plant in question has opposite leaf arrangement and Zanthoxylum does not.

Wisteria?
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
Plant Identifier Garden Sages Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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stone
Apr 26, 2018 3:51 PM CST
I don't know wafer ash, but that tree certainly looks like the ash trees around my neck of the woods.

https://treedoctor.msu.edu/ash...
Ash typically have approximately 5-9 leaflets per leaf.
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
Hostas Foliage Fan Bromeliad Heucheras Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds
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quercusnut
Apr 26, 2018 5:05 PM CST
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Leftwood
Apr 26, 2018 9:04 PM CST
Was that for me?
It says palmately compound with three (rarely five) leaflets, and in another place makes no mention of such a possibility.
The mystery plant is clearly NOT palmately compound, and "rarely" does not meant always.

AND
This is why wikipedia is bad, BAD!

Look at the source cited for the supposed five leaflet statement:
Keeler, Harriet L. (1900). Our Native Trees and How to Identify Them. New York: Charles Scriber's Sons. pp. 32–35

And this is the ACTUAL source:
https://archive.org/stream/cu3...

Firstly, the publisher is misspelled in the citation - (Scribner, not Scriber)
Secondly, there is NO MENTION of 5 leaflets in the ascribed source. As often is the case with wikipedia, supposed "facts" are pulled out of thin air.


Always use credible sources, and that is NOT wikipedia!
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
Hostas Foliage Fan Bromeliad Heucheras Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds
Image
quercusnut
Apr 27, 2018 12:46 AM CST
Didn't mean to double post. Had left this thread for a while.
I don't think it's Wafer Ash necessarily.
[Last edited by quercusnut - Apr 27, 2018 12:48 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1693860 (9)
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
Hostas Foliage Fan Bromeliad Heucheras Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds
Image
quercusnut
Apr 27, 2018 12:59 AM CST
Box Elder?
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Apr 27, 2018 6:42 AM CST
I don't think it is box elder, but I don't have any useful suggestions.
Porkpal
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
Hostas Foliage Fan Bromeliad Heucheras Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds
Image
quercusnut
Apr 27, 2018 1:14 PM CST
It is familiar to me. I think I have them in my woods. Just never got around to IDing. I'll try to get pics today if I can find one that is leafed out. Or should that be 'leaved' out?
[Last edited by quercusnut - Apr 27, 2018 1:17 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1694313 (12)
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Apr 27, 2018 4:39 PM CST
Left out?
Porkpal
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
Hostas Foliage Fan Bromeliad Heucheras Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds
Image
quercusnut
Apr 27, 2018 5:39 PM CST
porkpal said:Left out?

Hilarious!

Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
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ViburnumValley
Apr 28, 2018 8:35 AM CST
The plant in question - if anyone is still interested - is an Ash species (Fraxinus sp.). VEGAS702 could provide some additional images, though I think this clearly has opposite arrangement of pinnate compound foliage.

Ptelea trifoliata and Zanthoxylum species will have alternate arrangement of their compound foliage.
John
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
Hostas Foliage Fan Bromeliad Heucheras Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds
Image
quercusnut
Apr 28, 2018 10:35 AM CST
VV, so glad to see you here. Hurray!
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Enjoys or suffers cold winters Dog Lover Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Image
ViburnumValley
Apr 28, 2018 10:38 AM CST
Just making an Ash of myself...
John
Name: Kyle
Middle TN (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Roses Ferns
Hostas Foliage Fan Bromeliad Heucheras Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds
Image
quercusnut
Apr 28, 2018 11:38 AM CST
nodding
Las Vegas, NV (Zone 9a)
VEGAS702
Apr 29, 2018 8:28 PM CST
quercusnut said:I'm thinking Wafer Ash -- Ptelea trifoliata. Not sure though.


It's an American Beech wood. Took me several days to figure it out.
-VEGAS702-
Las Vegas, NV (Zone 9a)
VEGAS702
Apr 29, 2018 8:31 PM CST
Leftwood said:Was that for me?
It says palmately compound with three (rarely five) leaflets, and in another place makes no mention of such a possibility.
The mystery plant is clearly NOT palmately compound, and "rarely" does not meant always.

AND
This is why wikipedia is bad, BAD!



Look at the source cited for the supposed five leaflet statement:
Keeler, Harriet L. (1900). Our Native Trees and How to Identify Them. New York: Charles Scriber's Sons. pp. 32–35

And this is the ACTUAL source:
https://archive.org/stream/cu3...

Firstly, the publisher is misspelled in the citation - (Scribner, not Scriber)
Secondly, there is NO MENTION of 5 leaflets in the ascribed source. As often is the case with wikipedia, supposed "facts" are pulled out of thin air.


Always use credible sources, and that is NOT wikipedia!


Thanks for helping. It's an American Beechwood
-VEGAS702-

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