Roses forum: Is this RRD? :(

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Petaluma, CA (Zone 9b)
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KaySidhu
Apr 28, 2018 6:11 AM CST
Hi folks! I'm new to the site. A bit of context related to my question:
My family moved to Northern California from Michigan this past August.... We inherited about 30 rose bushes from the previous homeowners. Sadly, I have zero experience/knowledge of roses. I have bought and added the Bayer 3 in 1 to the bushes as the owners had left some of this behind because I noticed some aphids and rust/black spots on the leaves of a few bushes. But I wonder if they have been afflicted by RRD. I'm attaching pictures and would love insight and/or guidance from the group.





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[Last edited by KaySidhu - Apr 28, 2018 6:31 AM (+)]
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Name: dana aka iris28
tristate area, ky z6b
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Irises
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dana
Apr 28, 2018 8:23 AM CST
KaySidhu said:Hi folks! I'm new to the site. A bit of context related to my question:
My family moved to Northern California from Michigan this past August.... We inherited about 30 rose bushes from the previous homeowners. Sadly, I have zero experience/knowledge of roses. I have bought and added the Bayer 3 in 1 to the bushes as the owners had left some of this behind because I noticed some aphids and rust/black spots on the leaves of a few bushes. But I wonder if they have been afflicted by RRD. I'm attaching pictures and would love insight and/or guidance from the group.






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hi, I don't see anything that looks like rrd in these pics. rrd is kind of unmistakable. It looks really gnarly and not like any plant should. the red growth you see is normal new growth. the misshapen bud was nibbled on at some point. they look like they just need some good fertilizer and maybe a pruning. clean up all the leaf litter with black spot so it dosn't return to the soil. Those 3 buds are a cluster. different rose types have different ways of blooming. hybrid teas are usually a single bloom on one stem. this is how I got addicted to roses. we bought a house and I thought the rose bushes were thickets. I was to busy inside to worry about it and then they bloomed and I was hooked.
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017 Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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fwmosher
Apr 28, 2018 8:48 AM CST
Welcome to the Forum: I don't see anything looking like RRD in your pics.
I do see what appears to be Black Spot on one rose, and the buds that appear to be "nipped" on another, could very well be thrips and/or saw fly slugs, the latter (green worms on under side of leaves). There is also a brown inchworm-like caterpillar, which can do a job on a rose bud. The Bayer 3 in 1 is one of those nicotinoids as the pesticide part. May be very less harmful to bees, administered at soil level rather than sprayed. Don't know. Cheers.
Petaluma, CA (Zone 9b)
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KaySidhu
Apr 28, 2018 6:56 PM CST
dana said:

hi, I don't see anything that looks like rrd in these pics. rrd is kind of unmistakable. It looks really gnarly and not like any plant should. the red growth you see is normal new growth. the misshapen bud was nibbled on at some point. they look like they just need some good fertilizer and maybe a pruning. clean up all the leaf litter with black spot so it dosn't return to the soil. Those 3 buds are a cluster. different rose types have different ways of blooming. hybrid teas are usually a single bloom on one stem. this is how I got addicted to roses. we bought a house and I thought the rose bushes were thickets. I was to busy inside to worry about it and then they bloomed and I was hooked.


Thanks Dana! Smiling I will clean up the black spot leaf litter.
I wish I hadn't looked at mine! haha

Petaluma, CA (Zone 9b)
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KaySidhu
Apr 28, 2018 6:59 PM CST
fwmosher said:Welcome to the Forum: I don't see anything looking like RRD in your pics.
I do see what appears to be Black Spot on one rose, and the buds that appear to be "nipped" on another, could very well be thrips and/or saw fly slugs, the latter (green worms on under side of leaves). There is also a brown inchworm-like caterpillar, which can do a job on a rose bud. The Bayer 3 in 1 is one of those nicotinoids as the pesticide part. May be very less harmful to bees, administered at soil level rather than sprayed. Don't know. Cheers.


Thanks! I bought the granules to pour around the base. I didn't check its affect on bees. Ugh... thanks I'm going to make sure and find something else if it's negative.

THough I still have this niggling feeling.. my rose bushes seem so out of control! though this is my first spring with them so perhaps its normal. I'm going to add some more comparison/question mark pictures based on what I saw in other people's bushes around town.
Petaluma, CA (Zone 9b)
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KaySidhu
Apr 28, 2018 7:39 PM CST
I sprayed RTU Neem oil all over these bushes earlier today... one bottle on four or so bushes and there are 30 in the garden so $$$. Though, it would be a travesty if one or two of the bushes are diseased and I've used the same pruning shears on all these bushes and therefore possibly infected all of them. These bushes don't look a lot like the typical RRD pictures on the net however, most of those are at the point where the disease has spread quite far.
Much of the information suggests different varieties respond to RRD in different ways, not all have the witches broom, not all will have an excessive amount of thorns, etc.. however the consensus is that RRD will alter the "normal" growth pattern/shape of the shrub and its leaves. My challenge is not all have name tags attached so I can't be sure whether new foliage on these is indeed normal or if something else is going on.
Okay so at the risk of being indulgent.. here are additional pictures ... the first is a collage of six - at the top what seem to be three healthy looking bushes and underneath three pictures from the one weirdly growing bush with... what look like skinny curled red leaves...
Next another bush which has two "normal" looking buds and then one stem with a lot of buds and again thin curled small red leaves.
And the last picture is of a bush which keeps growing really long shoots and seems to have a lot more thorns on the new stems.

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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Apr 28, 2018 7:55 PM CST
I am no expert, but they all look okay to me.
Porkpal
Name: Amanda
KC metro area, Missouri (Zone 6a)
Roses Zinnias Region: Missouri Cat Lover Dog Lover Bookworm
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pepper23
Apr 28, 2018 8:11 PM CST
Looks like fresh new growth to me. The top one looks more like a climber but it could be the way it was pruned at some point.
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
Apr 28, 2018 8:16 PM CST

Moderator

All normal new growth, some varieties produce reddish growth, some don't.
My Lady Emma Hamilton is all reddish-bronze in the spring.

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Petaluma, CA (Zone 9b)
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KaySidhu
Apr 28, 2018 8:46 PM CST
pepper23 said:Looks like fresh new growth to me. The top one looks more like a climber but it could be the way it was pruned at some point.


Thank you! What is a climber?
Petaluma, CA (Zone 9b)
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KaySidhu
Apr 28, 2018 8:47 PM CST
Calif_Sue said:All normal new growth, some varieties produce reddish growth, some don't.
My Lady Emma Hamilton is all reddish-bronze in the spring.



Yes, yes! Phew! Thank you sooooo much! Smiling

I just noticed you're in Sebastopol. We moved to Petaluma from Michigan last August. :)
[Last edited by KaySidhu - Apr 28, 2018 8:49 PM (+)]
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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Roses Irises Clematis
Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Hummingbirder Bee Lover Butterflies Houseplants
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Calif_Sue
Apr 28, 2018 9:00 PM CST

Moderator

Ahhh, Neighbors! Lovely weather for gardening!

A climber, a rose that has long canes that can be trained on fences, arbors, pillars and gazebos. Most climbing roses are variations of bush-type varieties. If you train/tie a long can horizontally, it develops more blooms all along the cane.
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Petaluma, CA (Zone 9b)
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KaySidhu
Apr 29, 2018 1:02 AM CST
Yes! And it is amazing gardening weather.
A climber! Aah thanks! That makes sense now, just what you described is happening on one part of that rose.. the stem is horizontal and roses are shooting up along the cane! What I thought was potentially symptomatic of RRD is actually a characteristic of the rose itself. What's that saying something like never underestimate a fool with a little bit of knowledge. Good grief! I made a lot of trouble for myself thinking all was lost! :)
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Apr 29, 2018 8:34 AM CST
Calif_Sue said:Ahhh, Neighbors! Lovely weather for gardening!

A climber, a rose that has long canes that can be trained on fences, arbors, pillars and gazebos. Most climbing roses are variations of bush-type varieties. If you train/tie a long can horizontally, it develops more blooms all along the cane.


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/...

The yellow climber "might" be "Golden Showers".
Observe, observe, observe
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017 Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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fwmosher
May 22, 2018 5:53 PM CST
Might be "Golden Gate" as well. BUT, you have to get this RRD out of your mind! You refer to it again in a later post. You will probably never see it in your lifetime. It's like Fox Tv and taking an absolute dribble comment, and turning same into "fact" before the show is over. Roses are meant to enjoy, not to get an ulcer over worrying about them. Cheers!
Petaluma, CA (Zone 9b)
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KaySidhu
May 22, 2018 7:51 PM CST
fwmosher said:Might be "Golden Gate" as well. BUT, you have to get this RRD out of your mind! You refer to it again in a later post. You will probably never see it in your lifetime. It's like Fox Tv and taking an absolute dribble comment, and turning same into "fact" before the show is over. Roses are meant to enjoy, not to get an ulcer over worrying about them. Cheers!


Thanks! :D
My husband always says "when you hear hooves think horses, not zebras". I get a bit obsessive about things, just gotta remind myself... horses not zebras!
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
May 22, 2018 10:16 PM CST
fwmosher said:Might be "Golden Gate" as well. BUT, you have to get this RRD out of your mind! You refer to it again in a later post. You will probably never see it in your lifetime. It's like Fox Tv and taking an absolute dribble comment, and turning same into "fact" before the show is over. Roses are meant to enjoy, not to get an ulcer over worrying about them. Cheers!


Frank, you are correct that RRD is not common in California ... yet. However, RRD has been found in the Weeks Roses growing grounds. They have mapped instances of RRD in several counties in California. It's true that we have a small problem with RRD, but east of the Rockies, it's a whole different story.

The roses in some public parks have been totally wiped out and many private gardens have been destroyed by RRD. Nurseries back east have had to close because they could not guarantee that they were not shipping an infected plant.

Rose rosette disease IS something to be concerned about and I think it's important to be on the lookout for symptoms.

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Frank Mosher
Nova Scotia, Canada (Zone 6a)
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds Roses Clematis Lilies Peonies
Region: Canadian Photo Contest Winner: 2017 Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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fwmosher
May 27, 2018 4:30 PM CST
Yes it is important to recognize the symptoms of RRD even though one may seldom if ever run across it. However, the issue should be, being able to recognize "true" symptoms of RRD and in that case, some posters on this subject, have not exercised due diligence in showing any basis for their opinion, to the extent that they can drive down a street and, "on the fly" diagnose RRD! WOW!!! With a little encouragement, they are throwing rose plants out left right and center, with only mass media indoctrination, and some really misleading posts on this august forum, as their mentor!! WOW!! The hyperbola is analogous to that of "celiac disease" in that barely 1% of Americans have been properly diagnosed with the disease, (blood test and stomach biopsy), yet millions have claimed that they are suffering from same!!! At some point in life, one should just shake their head, drop back 20 yards and punt! Like, "Is the sky really falling" and if so, should I go to my grave from the stress just worrying about it, or just enjoy gardening and life????? It is not about not being informed! We are "informed to death" on almost every issue there is in the World and in the World of Gardening! But at some point, we gardeners have to just block out this constant bombardment of doomesday pontifications, and just go back to enjoying gardening, like our parents and grandsparents did! Cheers!
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Roses Irises Clematis
Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Hummingbirder Bee Lover Butterflies Houseplants
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Calif_Sue
May 27, 2018 4:46 PM CST

Moderator

And cheers back at ya!
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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
May 27, 2018 8:22 PM CST
Frank ...

I strongly disagree with your post about rose rosette disease (RRD).

RRD may not be a problem where you garden in Nova Scotia, Canada, but it IS a serious problem in many parts of the United States.

I think to minimize the problem of RRD does a disservice to the rose community.

I know of at least 6 NGA members who have lost roses to RRD.

For my "due diligence", here are a few links that many may find informative:

https://roserosette.org/

https://www.amerinursery.com/p...

http://www.newenglandgrows.org...

https://gpnmag.com/news/scient...

http://www.nurserymag.com/arti...
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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