Daylilies forum: Things noticed while hybridizing

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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
May 13, 2018 4:24 PM CST
Today while making my crosses I ran across two daylilies('Tuscawilla Tigress' one bloom and 'Brocaded Gown' one bloom) that had split pistils and I found one daylily that the style was much shorter than the stamens ('Lullaby Baby' all open blooms). Yesterday I found the style on 'Laughing Feather' to be very long and have almost 90 degree bends in it. Today it was better but still very long and with a few kinks.
I noticed that the stamens on 'Royal Eventide' are almost always incorporated with extra petal material and it leaves very little pollen left to work with.
So I would like for everyone who spots some oddities while doing their rounds in the garden each day to please post them here. Please feel free to ask any questions your might have also. There will be some questions about the things seen and maybe others can provide answers to us newbies.
I did pollinate all three of the separated parts of the pistils on the plants, I did not even try the style on 'Laughing Feather' that had the sharp kinks in it. I did try two of the very short styles on 'Lullaby Baby' just to see if they would take.
I often see no trace of the liquid at the tip of the stigma, but I normally go ahead and put pollen on it anyhow. Hope I got the daylily parts named correctly, it gets a little confusing to me.
[Last edited by Seedfork - May 13, 2018 4:26 PM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
May 13, 2018 4:35 PM CST
dixiebelle426 wanted to know how long it would be after pollenization of the bloom before she would know if she had been successful. I replied two to three days (seem normal in my garden) what is the longest period anyone has noticed it took for a pod to form after pollenization? Have you ever noticed one formed the next day?
Name: Arlene
Florida's east coast (Zone 9a)
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florange
May 13, 2018 4:36 PM CST
Larry, this is interesting because LAUGHING FEATHER is a late bloomer down here on the peninsula. Very late.
Name: Arlene
Florida's east coast (Zone 9a)
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florange
May 13, 2018 4:38 PM CST
Larry, I've been told it takes 1.5 hr for the cross to take, but it may take 4-5 days for the bloom to drop off. I don't pick it off, I let it drop by itself.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
May 13, 2018 4:45 PM CST
Yes, I agree it may take that long for the old bloom to drop off, but the pod can be seen forming way before that. I was just reading that some people do remove the old bloom because it could cause the small pod to break off (I can see that happening on some blooms that are so heavy after blooming). Sometimes I swear we must have had a rain I dump so much water out of spent blooms. Others just fall off with the gentlest of touches, I have read some people actually breed for that trait. I wonder if any of those blooms that just fall off by themselves have much texture to them? Some people just cut the old bloom about an inch from the base. I leave most of the blooms on but if it is very heavy, or has adhered itself like glue to the pod I do try to remove it carefully. It seems the more I touch the blooms the more likely I am to knock off some buds.
[Last edited by Seedfork - May 14, 2018 6:05 AM (+)]
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Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Spiders! Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies
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bxncbx
May 13, 2018 4:55 PM CST
In the past I've seen everything you've seen on your plants. Can't say I've ever seen liquid on the pistil though but I pollinate before 8 am.

No scapes here yet but when my bloom season starts I'll post on my oddities. Have you gotten a pistil yet curled up like a pig's tail? Seen that one & never tried to pollinate it.

I'd say it takes weeks for me to know for sure a pod is forming. Some start and get fairly large, then abort. And if you have squirrels, never count your seeds before you harvest them. They LOVE to eat the seeds!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
May 13, 2018 4:58 PM CST
Arlene, I went back (May 9th) and pulled up my photo of the first bloom on 'Laughing Feather' posted in the May blooms thread that one even has a kink in the style, not as bad as the ones mentioned here but very noticeable. Last year was the first year the plant bloomed in my garden, and it was on April 24th. Of course last year was the year of no winter here.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
May 13, 2018 5:03 PM CST
@bxncbx,
I do find that very interesting, you are in NYC and you can pollinate before 8:00 AM? Do you use pollen out of the refrigerator or frozen pollen? Even at 9:30 AM this morning a lot of my pollen was till not full opened. No pig tales here yet, but I am looking forward to you future posts.
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
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bxncbx
May 13, 2018 5:34 PM CST
Larry, I use fresh pollen. Never had any luck with the frozen stuff mostly because I never remember to use it!

Most of my daylilies are open around dawn. I get up early, take pics of all the open/opening flowers, make tags & then go back out to pollinate before work. On weekends I sleep in and do my crosses typically between 9 & 10.
Last year I did crosses after work and some of them took if I remember correctly.
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
May 13, 2018 10:00 PM CST
I've crossed split pistils in the past, and the plants set a pod. I don't do that anymore
as I don't want to possibly introduce the fault to the seedlings.

Also crossed plants in the rain, and they set a pod. I marked "rain" on the tags for reference.
I didn't cross in the rain intentionally though. The rain was a surprise.

I don't go by the time of day to pollinate. Have better success by watching for fluffy pollen,
and the glistening fluid on the top of the pistil (stigma). The plants differ as to when this combination of factors occur. This could be early morning or almost noon depending on the plants. Of course, sometimes those two factors don't occur at the same time with the two plants
I've chosen to cross. And, I do a lot of running back and forth from house to garden to check them. Great exercise!

Also had pods set after crossing in late afternoon. Tried this as experiment.

Usually takes two days to see a pod begin to form here.
[Last edited by mistyfog - May 13, 2018 10:05 PM (+)]
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
May 14, 2018 4:13 AM CST
I do find that very interesting, you are in NYC and you can pollinate before 8:00 AM? Do you use pollen out of the refrigerator or frozen pollen?

At this time of year the sun comes up earlier and the days are longer in NYC than your location, Larry.

https://sunrise-sunset.org/sea...
https://sunrise-sunset.org/sea...

If you move forward to June 21st, sunrise is 5.40, sunset is 7.49 daylength is 14.08 hours in Larry's location, and sunrise 5.26, sunset 8.29 and daylength 15.03 in NYC.

Of course that switches around the other way in winter.

As for the teeny pods pulling off with the flowers, I'd expect that might be because the pod hasn't "set" in any case. It can be weeks before you know if a pod actually has viable seeds, it may look like it is forming and then abort weeks later. Maurice has probably written about this somewhere.
[Last edited by sooby - May 14, 2018 4:23 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
May 14, 2018 12:27 PM CST
I was surprised to find several cultivars this morning with split stiles. I am not sure it is a cultivar thing, or a weather created thing or what? 'Tuscawilla Tigress' had several blooms on it with split stiles, but several did not have them.
I am still surprised that even at noon much of the pollen I used still did not look fluffy, but I used it anyhow. I have been removing quite a few tags because the pods did not set. It could be partly due to the very dry weather we have had for the past few weeks, but I do think it is more because the pollen has not been ready when I was. Those two things could be related.
I made some photos of one of the seed pods that have set. And a photo of the tags I selected to use. Notice that this tag has both pollen and pod parent initials on it, now I have changed it so that now I am only putting the pollen parent name on it.

Thumb of 2018-05-14/Seedfork/d26a9f
Thumb of 2018-05-14/Seedfork/8c620c

My garden looking like the garden of a hybridizer, tags twirling in the wind.
Thumb of 2018-05-14/Seedfork/79cbcb

[Last edited by Seedfork - May 14, 2018 12:47 PM (+)]
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Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Spiders! Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies
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bxncbx
May 15, 2018 12:18 PM CST
As I was lamenting my lack of scapes to date I decided to look at some pictures of blooms from last year. Here's a picture of Roman Cohort with the curly pistil.

Thumb of 2018-05-15/bxncbx/051170

Try pollinating that one!
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Spiders! Plant and/or Seed Trader Winter Sowing Hybridizer Peonies
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bxncbx
May 15, 2018 12:22 PM CST
And here's a picture of one of my seedlings that bloomed for the first time last year. It always seemed to have a weird pistil and issues with pollen formation.

Thumb of 2018-05-15/bxncbx/2a460b

Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
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Polymerous
May 16, 2018 11:45 PM CST
I agree with the comments that it can take weeks to know if a cross has taken. While I have never had pods that went all the way to 8-12 weeks turn up empty, I had one case, years ago, where every seemingly viable pod on the plant aborted about two weeks after pollination, like clockwork. If memory serves, this was on the diploid 'Adrienne's Surprise'.
A 'Premonition of Spring' - PCI time already?!
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
May 17, 2018 4:27 AM CST
One thing I do every morning before I pollinate, I cut all of yesterdays pollinated blooms off about an inch from the base of the bloom. Have seen all the problems with the pistils, mine seem to be on the ones I really want some seed from.
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
May 17, 2018 8:47 AM CST
I'm seeing several plants with 2 scapes coming out of
every fan in each clump of seedlings.
One in the middle of the fan and one on the side.
Seen this before, but not on every fan in a clump.
[Last edited by mistyfog - May 17, 2018 8:49 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
May 17, 2018 10:57 AM CST
mistyfog,
That's great, what have you been feeding them, or have you been getting lots of rain?
Photos? Varieties?
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
May 17, 2018 1:35 PM CST
Larry, I gave them 10-10-10 early early in the spring, and a second application later, plus we have quite a bit of rain. Same fertilizer process as usual, except for all the rain. These seedlings putting up double scapes are three and four years old. I can't believe how much the seedlings and registered plants have grown in a week's time with the hot temps and rain.

Also:

During the winter, hubby collected rain water to use on the seedlings
inside the house. They grew so well, I had to trim many times to make them easier to work with. A few I didn't trim grew to 3 feet tall before trimming. No fertilize for these seedlings. They didn't need any. We had a bountiful supply of rain water, so the plants did not get our tap water which the plants do not like. Plus once the new seedlings were planted outside, they are getting plenty of rain. These have been fertilized once with 10-10-10. They are growing great so far. I'll give them another fertilizer application in a few weeks.

It would be so great if just the right amount of rain continued, but during the
hottest months of summer, we usually have a period of drought. Grumbling
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
Daylilies Hybridizer Seed Starter Pollen collector Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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mistyfog
May 17, 2018 3:45 PM CST
Here ya go Larry. Tet seedling.
Hard to get a photo showing scapes, so I put in arrows.
Had to hurry, heard thunder, storm getting close.
I moved this out of the seedling bed on a warm February day.

Thumb of 2018-05-17/mistyfog/ce2c49

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