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Avatar for JPSA
May 17, 2018 8:50 AM CST
Cape Town
Good Day

I am attaching an image of a plant that I have.

It has taken about five months for it to flower. I grew it from a cutting.

The flower has quite a pungent odor.

Please assist

Kindest Regards
JP
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May 17, 2018 8:54 AM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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It appears to be a variety of Ceropegia (commonly called Starfish Plant). We have a list of different varieties here in our database with photos for comparison: https://garden.org/plants/sear...
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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May 17, 2018 2:17 PM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Am thinking that's a Stapelia (carrion flower). Odour: most Stapelia are fly-pollinated.
I'd say that the flower colour of our ones was brown.
Kind of fits with where houseflies (at least) lay eggs.

Had them at various times in a greenhouse and in the house.
The odour was just a curiosity and never bothered us.
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May 17, 2018 2:37 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Stapelia have now been moved (by scientists) to the genus Ceropegia. One of the common names for many of them is "Carrion Flower" due to their malodorous scent. Here are a few photos from our database for comparison:



~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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May 17, 2018 3:31 PM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
The taxonomic reorganization mentioned by Lin above is not reflected in Wikipedia (yet?).

If you're going to correct the nomenclatural usage of others, I believe you should provide more substantiation than "moved (by scientists)". I'm quite sure that there are frequently disagreements between botanists and between taxonomists as to what a currently appropriate classification (and hence nomenclature) for a group of plants should be.

Presumably, the focus of the academic research and the methodology used both affect the outcome of such research. I don't believe that taxonomy (classification) is simply a matter of right and wrong. There are, however, explicit rules for nomenclature (naming), whether they are followed or not. And even here, there may be grounds for disagreement.

If you're going to impose a particular classification, personally, I would rather you cite the actual source which you are using.
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May 17, 2018 5:24 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener Houseplants
@SunnyBorders Charlie, I sure didn't mean to come across as though I was "correcting" your nomenclature usage and I do truly apologize if I came across that way.

I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to botany but the National Gardening Association uses the Catalogue of Life for classification purposes. The Catalogue of Life and the database here list Ceropegia as the Genus and Stapelia as a synonym; many plants in the Ceropegia genus used to be listed in our database as Stapelia but that name was changed when the Catalogue of Life updated. If botanists and plant scientists decide to change the genera back to Stapelia, our administrators will make the changes accordingly to our database here at garden.org.

I personally do not feel that Wikipedia (A "Free Encyclopedia that Anyone can Change") is a reliable source of information. Information at Wikipedia can be edited by anybody and everybody and I don't know if there is any administrator/overseer of that input.

Maybe one of our Plant Database administrators @zuzu, @Calif_Sue, @Kentpfeiffer, @eclayne, @Australis can better clarify the nomenclature and how our database works.

Again ... I apologize if I sounded like I was correcting you because that certainly was not my intention.
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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May 17, 2018 5:39 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
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I have nothing to add to Lin's excellent explanation except these CoL listings for the former Stapelia genus. Please note that the genus no longer exists, and all of its former species are now species of the Ceropegia genus.

http://www.catalogueoflife.org...
Avatar for porkpal
May 17, 2018 5:56 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
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A new way to become extinct?
Porkpal
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May 17, 2018 7:24 PM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Lin, thanks, but apologies not needed. I'd even feel that one is not relevant to the issue at hand.

I am assuming that Zuzu means that the Genus Stapelia no longer exists according to the the Catalogue of Life. I don't take that to be synonymous with a statement that the Genus Stapelia no longer exists.

I'm not disputing the NGA's choice of using the Catalogue of Life as the basis for its Plant Database; that's the NGA Owner's/Administration's choice. I suppose that I could even understand a requirement for all members of the NGA to use NGA Plant Database nomenclature.

But insisting that the Genus Stapelia no longer exist sounds like dogma to me.
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May 17, 2018 11:14 PM CST
Salt Spring Island, BC (Zone 8b)
Region: Canadian Cut Flowers Dahlias Region: Pacific Northwest Keeper of Poultry Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
I don't trust the Catalogue of Life as the accepted and only source. Stapelia is still accepted in several databases ie. tropicos.org, RHS, ipni, etc. The Catalogue of Life has only proposed changes without being peer accepted.
He who plants a garden plants happiness.
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May 18, 2018 7:16 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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No one is claiming the Catalog of Life is the only source of taxonomic information about plants. That's not how science works in any event. It does, however, have three attributes that make it especially useful for the database here. It is extremely comprehensive, striving to list every known species of plant (and other taxon not relevant here) in the world. It is updated regularly. It is easily accessible to anyone with an internet connection.

I personally find some of the information contained in the CoL to be, let's say, perplexing. But, none of my favorite sources can match it in the three attributes listed above. Shrug! If anyone knows of a source that can, please point it out.
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May 18, 2018 7:37 AM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL ☼🌷⚘🌹🌻 (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Butterflies
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Peer-reviewed accuracy is the only worthwhile pursuit, regardless of amount of content.
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May 18, 2018 8:14 AM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
I can fully appreciate Kent's stated reasons for the NGA's choosing to use the Catalogue of Life as the framework for its Plant Database.

My complaint has been, to be frank, several of Zuzu's comments such as "Please note that the genus no longer exists, - - -"; that without qualifying the statement with "according to the Catalogue of Life".
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May 18, 2018 2:05 PM CST
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Just in general, apologies with an "if" are known as conditional apologies are give the person apologizing wiggle room to not own it, or to back out of it. It's better to apologize full-stop.

For example: I apologize for making people re-think how they offer their apologies. Smiling
Keep going!
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May 18, 2018 5:03 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener Houseplants
I apologize full-stop.
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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May 18, 2018 5:36 PM CST
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Hehe. One of the most important skills I ever learned was that I can apologize even if I'm not sure whether something happened.

To say I'm sorry for stepping on somebody's foot when I'm not sure whether did is 100% harmless in the situation that I did not cause the offense.

Only when you're a politician or a lawyer are apologies an admission of guilt. I think they are a sign of strength and maturity.
Keep going!
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May 18, 2018 10:14 PM CST
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 1
Take a look at this paper.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/...

I'm a little surprised by the sensitivity at the removal of the old genus, but if someone has a specific problem with the publication, let's talk about it.

If and when you ever need to find papers like this it's usually pretty to easy to visit Google scholar and find them. Much better to get at the source in my opinion, rather than debate the authority of the CoL (which I have historically found suspect on a few occasions).

Visit this site and enter "Ceropegia Stapelia revised", and the link above appears in the second position.

https://scholar.google.com
Last edited by Baja_Costero May 19, 2018 10:22 AM Icon for preview
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May 19, 2018 5:23 AM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Very interesting, Baja.

Proposed reorganization published in 2017.
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May 19, 2018 6:15 AM CST
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Even if the genus Stapelia is no longer used, "Stapelia" is still the most used common name.

That's what happened to Coleus (which is no longer in the genus Coleus) and Amaryllis (which is no longer in the genus Amaryllis).
Keep going!
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May 19, 2018 9:56 AM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener Houseplants
It is very confusing!

At some point in the past couple of years, Coleus were moved from Coleus genus to Plectranthus genus but have now been moved back to Coleus! Coleus (Coleus scutellarioides)

There's still at least one species in the genus Amaryllis - Naked Lady (Amaryllis belladonna) but others that we call "Amaryllis" are in the genus Hippeastrum.

Many plants in the Chirita genus had previously been moved to genus Primulina but are now back to Chirita!

How does anyone keep up with so many changes and reversal of changes??? Blinking
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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