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Avatar for Starfishmomma
May 18, 2018 7:44 AM CST
UK
Hi, what's the best way to grow normal sized roses in containers? I've got three in containers but they're not doing anywhere near as well as the two in the ground.
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May 18, 2018 8:52 AM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
You are going to hate this answer, but it depends on the rose. If you are growing a miniature rose, it needs a smaller container than a floribunda or hybrid tea.

Could you please tell us what type of roses your are growing ? and their names so that we may be able to answer your question more specifically ?
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Avatar for Starfishmomma
May 18, 2018 1:22 PM CST
UK
Prima Ballerina and either Fragrant Delight or Fragrant Cloud. They came as a scented collection with Margaret Merril and Arthur Bell that have grown very well in the ground. Blue Moon was one of the collection but that died in the first year, which I just mention in case someone was interested in the individuals in the collection. I made sure to put a garlic clove in each container and earlier this week I watered them with Epsom salts for the first time. I have watered them with plant food in previous years.
Avatar for Protoavis
May 18, 2018 5:11 PM CST
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
Being Hybrid Tea's. You could do it, but chances are they'll never been as happy as in the ground where the root system can run wild. You'd also need to maintain the plant size (prune more often) to be smaller than in the ground as the small space for roots in a contain really limits how much up top growth can be maintained.

what size pots are you growing them in?
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
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May 19, 2018 5:06 PM CST
Name: Donna Marshall
Texas, USA
Keeper of Poultry Roses Region: Texas
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When we were traveling I took my roses with me in pots...people thought I was crazy..but they are my babies!
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May 22, 2018 2:13 PM CST
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
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Starfishmomma, what are the garlic and Epsom salts supposed to do?
I'm all ears!
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Avatar for Starfishmomma
May 22, 2018 2:48 PM CST
UK
Epsom salts is used as a fertilizer for roses as well as other plants and the garlic is supposed to act as a pest repellent. I also read once that they improve the fragrance of the rose. I don't really know if the benefits of garlic are old wive's tales or not.
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May 22, 2018 5:26 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
@Starfishmomma ....

Welcome! To NGA ... Smiling

There are a lot of myths about how to grow good roses.

Epsom salts does not provide any of the nutrients a plant needs for growth. It is usually added to the soil to add magnesium, which does help plant growth, but does not "feed" the rose as a a fertilizer.

Some people mix time released fertilizers in with their planting soil when they first pot up their roses. Others use granulated fertilzers that are water soluable. Others use a mix of organics as their fertilizer. I prefer to use a liquid fertilizer because I know I can make sure it is distributed evenly.

My own rule of thumb for roses, or any plants, grown in containers is to feed lightly and often ... Smiling

There are a lot of right ways to grow roses.

I do think garlic can act as a pest repellent for roses planted in the ground, but have never tried it in a container, so I don't know if it will work.

As far as garlic improving fragrance, that is pure myth. Fragrance is variable, but the gene that controls fragrance in roses is recessive. There are a lot of other things within the rose besides that one gene that will influence fragrance, such as petal thickness.

Good luck with your roses.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Avatar for porkpal
May 22, 2018 6:04 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
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I read recently that even garlic being an effective repellent for vampires is a myth.
Porkpal
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May 22, 2018 6:16 PM CST
Name: Amanda
KC metro area, Missouri (Zone 6a)
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May 22, 2018 6:36 PM CST
Name: Donna Marshall
Texas, USA
Keeper of Poultry Roses Region: Texas
What about the Epsom salt changing the ph and the ph effecting color and its intensity? as with mauve and blue?
Avatar for Starfishmomma
May 22, 2018 11:21 PM CST
UK
I don't know that much about it - I made a quick search and came across it, I happened to have some salts in the house and decided I had nothing much to lose in trying it out.
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May 22, 2018 11:43 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
We were all beginners at one time and did things to our roses that weren't really the best thing for them. The roses survived in spite of us .. Smiling

I suggest you water your roses deeply to leach out the epsom salts and then feed them with normal plant food. You don't have to buy the pricey plant food labeled especially for roses. Roses can't read, so they don't know they are not getting the gourmet plant food ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Avatar for Protoavis
May 23, 2018 1:05 AM CST
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
RoseBlush1 said:

As far as garlic improving fragrance, that is pure myth. Fragrance is variable, but the gene that controls fragrance in roses is recessive. There are a lot of other things within the rose besides that one gene that will influence fragrance, such as petal thickness.


Technically petal thickness preventing fragrance is a bit of a myth also. There isn't a genetic linkage between the two, what we have is just repeated selections in both directions without considering the other that have created the impression that one is at the expense of the other.

There are examples like Madame Anisette with thick petals and fragrance.
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
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May 23, 2018 1:22 AM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
@Protoavis ....

You might be interested in reading what Jack Harkness wrote about the anatomy of a petal and fragrance:

The thread "Fragrance In Roses" in Roses forum
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Avatar for Protoavis
May 23, 2018 4:38 PM CST
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
Thats from 1975....its over 50 years old.....genetics has moves forward since then, i mean the rose genome was only mapped out in the past few years and its stil in its infancy. There's no genetic linkage with petal thickness and fragrance, there are linkages with rebloom and fragrance though as shown in various papers coming out of Europe recently.

Adding to that there are several known mechanisms for rose fragrance, like perfurme made from caretenoids oxidation (usually yellow pigment) that only makes fragrance when the pigment is produced in the first place. Theres the fragrances that are produced by the stamens and pollen but not in the petals, these can be as strong and the main source of fragrance in a rose.

It's not reliable to go back 50 years when significant advancements have been made during those 50 years that demonstrate the information isnt as simple.
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
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May 23, 2018 9:38 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
I understand your point while discussing genetics, however the anatomy of a petal has not changed.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Avatar for Protoavis
May 24, 2018 3:57 PM CST
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
The anatomy hasnt changed but human understanding of it has in 50 years. The aspect of thick petals that can influence fragrance is that thick petals tend to delay a bloom opening which delays the petal from being exposed to conditions that assist in perfume release.

What we generally have in modern roses is a case of founder effect where modern fragrant roses often trace back heavily to cultivars like Peace (who has petals that aren't that great) and that shortcoming is exaggerated further as more inbreeding and selections that dont consider the whole are selected.

It's a similar fault in breeding like lack of BS resistance. If you compare to roses of the last few decades that selected heavily for disease resistance to older plants there's a big difference in health. The roses aren't changing but human understanding and selection is.

Given the work done in Europe in the last few years largely by anyone involved in roses it'll be very interesting to see the rapid changes in roses released in europe in the next 10 to 20 years now that various linkages are known, genome is known(ish), genetic testing is relatively cheap, etc. The rose never changes, human understanding does.
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
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May 24, 2018 8:25 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
You have a point ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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May 24, 2018 8:31 PM CST
Name: Karen
New Mexico (Zone 8a)
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Lyn, I have Henry Fonda in a pot. Would it be better off in the ground, or is it one that can be potted. It's my one and only rose right now.
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