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Jun 17, 2018 5:28 PM CST
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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Last edited by Calif_Sue Jun 17, 2018 8:01 PM Icon for preview
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Jun 17, 2018 5:53 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Someone needs to make the first post. So I'll just say I hope everyone enjoys talking oldies on this thread.
Porkpal
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Jun 17, 2018 6:05 PM CST
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
I think I have an idea that may work better than just one Antique Roses thread........

:-)

~Christopher
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Jun 17, 2018 6:36 PM CST
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
Thumb of 2018-06-18/jerijen/96eb9e
"De la Vina Mystery" after a light rain.

And may I say that I have always loved 'Wm. Allen Richardson' (above).
Avatar for ac91z6
Jun 17, 2018 7:14 PM CST
Northern MO (Zone 6a)
I'll ask a question!

Does anyone know anything about a kind of obscure tea rose, 'Enchantress'/'Enchanter' (it got a rename a few years after being released due to another 'Enchantress' being released a few years before this rose). HelpMeFind only has a default hardiness to z6b, but one of it's parents ("Mdm Caroline Testout") is listed as hardy to z5b.

Someone on Gardenweb brought up that Rose Petals is having a sale, and I'm planning a Halloween themed rose bed. It will be full sun and mostly protected from the wind, but I'm still z6a.

Am I nuts for even attempting this?
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Jun 17, 2018 8:31 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
All of us rose enthusiasts are a little nuts. I think a Hallowe'en bed sounds like a fine idea!
Porkpal
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Jun 17, 2018 10:22 PM CST
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
ac91z6 said:I'll ask a question!

Does anyone know anything about a kind of obscure tea rose, 'Enchantress'/'Enchanter' (it got a rename a few years after being released due to another 'Enchantress' being released a few years before this rose). HelpMeFind only has a default hardiness to z6b, but one of it's parents ("Mdm Caroline Testout") is listed as hardy to z5b.

Someone on Gardenweb brought up that Rose Petals is having a sale, and I'm planning a Halloween themed rose bed. It will be full sun and mostly protected from the wind, but I'm still z6a.

Am I nuts for even attempting this?


Virginia in SC grows this rose -- if I remember correctly -- but she's two zones warmer than you are, and wouldn't be able to speak about hardiness. However, I'm a zone pusher myself, and I have learned some things about Chinas and Teas here in 7a. There are two things that help keep them going, and you have to have at least one to grow them where it's colder. The first is planting deeply in a site with full all-day sun, ample rain and/or irrigation during the growing season, and getting fed. The second is a protected site, such as up against the south-facing side of a house. If you provide the first thing in an unprotected spot, the roses will get lots of Winter damage, but with all that sun, water, and food, will grow back through the Spring and Summer. My "Bermuda Spice" is in such a spot, and depending on the Winter, has been cut to anywhere between just above the mulch line and three feet in height. By the end of the season, it's at least five feet tall and at least four feet in diameter. Each early pruning season, I leave the Chinas, Teas, and tender Polyanthas until last, since they're so eager to wake up that they'll get hit hard by late frosts. After removing dead, diseased, and damaged wood, I dead-head when I remember, but otherwise let them grow wild the rest of the season. In this way, I treat them like Buddleia. If you can provide the second thing, you'll minimize Winter damage, and have more left to grow through Spring and Summer, and can get away with less than all-day sun.

Having a dash of HT in it might make for a slightly hardier Tea, but I'd still aim for providing at least one of the two things I mentioned above. But, as another gardening friend has said, we learn things by killing a lot of plants along the way, and if this becomes a learning experience, you may as well get the rose on-sale.

:-)

~Christopher
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Jun 18, 2018 5:13 AM CST
NW Oregon (Zone 7b)
Since antique roses (and antique rose fanatics) are a different kettle of fish, can we create our own sub-forum here?
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Jun 18, 2018 6:10 AM CST
Name: Bonnie
Texas
I discovered my love of Antique roses when I was searching for how to care for one of my HTroses and came across the Antique rose forum, it peaked my interest immediately and I began to do some research and found old roses that do well in my neck of the woods. My first Antique rose was Souvenir da la Malmasion, SDLM for short, she is a bourbon and is my favorite, she has a low bushy growth and has a spicy peppery rosey fragrance and if you rub behind the bloom your fingers will smell like the rose. Since then I have planted other old garden and antique roses, mainly teas, bourbons and this year a hybrid musk. I find the history of the old roses fascinating, the fact that most were bred in the 1800's and have survived all these years is amazing to me. I also thinks it's pretty cool that there are old roses that have been rediscovered growing in cemeteries that were neglected for years but still survived. I also grow modern roses so I'm not totally all about antique roses but they do make my heart beat a little faster.
Here is a bouquet of SDLM

Thumb of 2018-06-18/RosesnTx/3414b9
Thumb of 2018-06-18/RosesnTx/80dbee
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Jun 18, 2018 6:31 AM CST
Name: Bonnie
Texas
I forgot to add that I have grown modern roses my whole adult life but only started growing the antique roses about 5-6 years ago and learned everything I needed to know from people like Jeri, Ingrid, Kim Rupert, Jackie and many others that I may be leaving out. I am in SE TX and can grow the big tea roses but there are some roses that people up north in colder climates grow that won't grow well for me without the winter chill so I have to admire their pics and dream lol. I also like the fact that most of my old roses do not require as much pruning as my more modern roses, I didn't prune any of them except for dead heading the first three years and after that only a light haircut to keep them shaped up. I'm glad to see this thread started and I hope it peaks someone's interest the same way mine was many years ago.
Christopher is also a great person for information and has been an inspiration too.
Last edited by RosesnTx Jun 18, 2018 7:03 AM Icon for preview
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Jun 18, 2018 8:45 AM CST
Name: Virginia
Charleston, SC (Zone 9a)
Köppen climate classification Cfa
Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: South Carolina
ac91, I really think my Enchantress would be happier in a cooler climate. 6a may be too much of a good thing, but there's only one way to find out. If your summers are hot, you may find that she doesn't bloom much then, but that's true of many roses. Summer dormancy is definitely a thing- at least it is here! When she does bloom, the flowers are lovely and fragrant...

I'd give it a go, and if you're up for a bit of babying, keep her in a pot that can be sheltered that first winter to give her more of a chance.

Good luck,
Virginia
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Jun 18, 2018 9:45 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Roses Clematis
Houseplants Foliage Fan Keeper of Poultry Dog Lover Birds Hummingbirder
blusanne said:Since antique roses (and antique rose fanatics) are a different kettle of fish, can we create our own sub-forum here?


Welcome!
This particular thread is a sub-forum so to speak of the main Rose Forum, actually, it's own thread. Anyone can scroll to the bottom of the Rose Forum page and start a new thread on any subject about roses.
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Jun 18, 2018 11:16 AM CST
(Zone 6b)
Cat Lover Moon Gardener
I have a question about Reine des Violettes. I got the reblooming one from ARE. Will the blooms get bigger as the plant does? It was covered with really pretty, but tiny blooms when I got it. The deer got the buds this last time, so I didn't really get a chance to see if they were getting bigger. *edit It might be a dumb question I asked, but most modern roses I grow have huge blooms on tiny plants when new. Hmf says over 4 inches, just wondering if that info is off, or what?
Last edited by WitchyWV Jun 18, 2018 11:26 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for MargieNY
Jun 18, 2018 11:36 AM CST
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020 Garden Ideas: Level 1
WitchyWV said:I have a question about Reine des Violettes. I got the reblooming one from ARE. Will the blooms get bigger as the plant does? It was covered with really pretty, but tiny blooms when I got it. The deer got the buds this last time, so I didn't really get a chance to see if they were getting bigger. *edit It might be a dumb question I asked, but most modern roses I grow have huge blooms on tiny plants when new. Hmf says over 4 inches, just wondering if that info is off, or what?

I have 4 RDV's from 3 different sources. I just measured a few blooms - they are all 3 inches across. I do not them recall them being larger than 3 inches.
Observe, observe, observe
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Jun 18, 2018 1:16 PM CST
(Zone 6b)
Cat Lover Moon Gardener
Thank You! Margie. 3 inches would be bigger. I'm glad to hear that. My first blooms were 1-1 1/2 inches. The color and form is correct, I was thrown off by the size. The deer definitely didn't help. Crying
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Jun 18, 2018 4:16 PM CST
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
'Reine des Violettes' takes some time to get settled. I grow mine as a climber against a raised deck railing by the stairs. And I'll agree that its blooms max at about 3 inches across.

:-)

~Christopher
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Jun 18, 2018 4:16 PM CST
Name: Ingrid
Northeast San Diego County (Zone 11a)
Yes, the old roses really are different in that way. Most of the time they will be smaller, and they can even look different in terms of color and shape from the mature rose. They usually are much less spectacular than what you'll see the next year or even in the fall/winter of the same year (in warm climates). I once returned a rose before I knew better. When I realized my mistake I notified them and tried to give back their refund. I learned my lesson and now I'm not terribly surprised by the first flower or two, because invariably it will grow into its true self.

blusanne, I just want to say that the doggie you're using an an avatar is precious. Wish I could hug him through the screen. Did you have a different avatar name on the gardenweb forum? Admittedly, since I hung out mainly on the Antique Rose Forum side I didn't know that many people's names on the Modern Rose side.
Last edited by ingrid_vc Jun 18, 2018 4:29 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for Genevre
Jun 19, 2018 10:14 AM CST
central Arizona (Zone 6b)
To WitchyWV - your question about small bloom size is something I've noticed, and that came really into focus comparing last spring to this one with my young own-root roses. Last year the two gallicas I planted in my new border (Alain Blanchard and Tuscany Superb) as well as Hebe's Lip all had flowers about one inch diameter. What a disappointment! As this spring rolled around I was planning on getting rid of them after bloom if they bloomed the same way. I got a wonderful surprise - Tuscany Superb flowers about 3.5 inch diameter, Alain Blanchard with 2.5 inch flowers, and Hebe's Lip with about 2 to 2.5 inch flowers.

This spring I've got two own-root teas and two hybrid perpetuals moved from gallon pots into the border. All four have small flowers, maybe 2.5 inch diameter, so far this year. Three are new to me, but I've had my Baronne Prevost plant for several years in its pot, where it produced 4 to 4.5 inch blooms very happily. I'm hoping for larger flowers, maybe even later this year.

BTW, I'm new to this forum and happy to have been able to join up. This is my first time writing something here. Hi!
Avatar for porkpal
Jun 19, 2018 10:30 AM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Welcome, Genevre! I have observed the same tendency among my recently planted Old Garden Roses growing on their own roots. The first spring and summer the blooms are often small but those that rebloom in the fall usually have much larger, richer colored blooms.
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Jun 19, 2018 10:45 AM CST
(Zone 6b)
Cat Lover Moon Gardener
Genevre I also planted Baronne Prevost this spring. It's right beside rdv, so the deer munched on it too. Those two, and Quicksilver I was the most irritated about. I didn't get to see a QS bloom yet, and they ate those buds I was waiting for. Thieving wood bandits! Sighing!

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