Roses forum: Heirloom Roses

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Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 19, 2018 2:22 PM CST
Hello All,

I was curious to know if anyone on here had any experience with Heirloom Roses; good, bad or indifferent? I ordered 3 1 gallon Peace Roses. They mentioned they would be defoliated, is that standard when shipping roses this large? Any tips/suggestions for them once they arrive being this late into the season? For reference, I'm on Long Island, NY z7a.

Thanks!
(Zone 6b)
Cat Lover Moon Gardener
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WitchyWV
Jun 19, 2018 2:38 PM CST
I've never ordered from them, but I have received the occasional defoliated rose. It does put them a little behind, but they catch up. I prefer them having leaves if I have a choice. I got a Chicago Peace from High Country Roses, and it came with leaves on it. Edit* Every rose I've ever ordered from Chamblee, RU, High Country, Fresh Garden etsy, and most of the ones from ARE came with leaves.
[Last edited by WitchyWV - Jun 19, 2018 2:40 PM (+)]
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Name: Ingrid
Northeast San Diego County (Zone 11a)
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ingrid_vc
Jun 19, 2018 2:38 PM CST
I've heard conflicting reports about them but this was not recently, and haven't ordered from them in a long time. I've received roses from the Texas Rose Emporium in two-gallon pots that were defoliated and it did them no harm whatsoever. It may be a way to ensure that no bugs or diseases have a chance to travel along with the roses, and the plants begin to grow new leaves in a very short period.

Witchy and I must have posted simultaneously and I just now saw her comments. In my much warmer and drier climate it's possible that the leaves grow back more quickly. Good luck!
[Last edited by ingrid_vc - Jun 19, 2018 2:40 PM (+)]
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Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 19, 2018 2:47 PM CST
Thanks guys! Thank You! So just throw them in the ground when they arrive? No need to keep them potted or anything?
(Zone 6b)
Cat Lover Moon Gardener
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WitchyWV
Jun 19, 2018 2:51 PM CST
ohh tips... Read the tips I got on the thread about my own root Evelyn. The sheet thing sounds like it would be perfect. I'm going to keep the stuff in pots potted until it cools down with some shade. If you do put them in the ground, find some way to shade them from the hottest part of the day. It will be easier for me to keep them cool in pots, so I'm not planting anything else right now. I'm watching poor Evelyn like a hawk.
[Last edited by WitchyWV - Jun 19, 2018 2:56 PM (+)]
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Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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nippstress
Jun 19, 2018 2:56 PM CST
The most significant concern most of us raise about Heirloom in the last couple of years is how the roses are priced far beyond what they should cost compared to other gallon roses from places like WitchyWV mentioned. The quality of the roses from Heirloom has usually been good, and like Ingrid says they seem to recover leaves relatively easily.
The main two things you need to provide a rose planting it this late in the season is water and temporary shade. How much water depends on how much rain you've been getting. If you're waterlogged, the rose can get too much water, but in our abnormally dry climate we'd need to water periodically. In principle, the more often you water the rose, the more it's inclined to develop shallow roots and NEED that frequent watering longterm. If you can water deeply and give it an interval between watering, it can toughen up the rose. When first planted, I might water every day or two, but after that the whole bed gets weekly water in dry periods and no more than twice weekly in bad spells. Once it starts putting out new leaves, over the ones it had when it arrived, you can treat it more or less like your established roses.
Temporary shade can be a yard umbrella or lawn chair posted over the rose till it grows new leaves. I would hold off on any fertilizer until it puts out new leaves, and only use water soluble fertilizer weakly in the first year. In really hot 100 degree temperature like we've had since late May (and yes, it's zone 5), I wouldn't fertilize at all till things cool down.
Cynthia
Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 19, 2018 3:00 PM CST
Fantastic - thanks guys! I checked out the Evelyn post and read about the sheet. Good to see Cynthia concurring. I will put them in the ground and keep them shaded.

Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
(Zone 6b)
Cat Lover Moon Gardener
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WitchyWV
Jun 19, 2018 3:21 PM CST
My personal reason I don't order from them besides the pricing, and claims on their site is because I don't like the way I saw some customers treated. I was looking at their facebook where they responded to some people that got bad plants. They told one person her rose died because she put a handful of miracle grow potting soil in the bottom of the planting hole. I admit I'm not an expert, and I don't use miracle grow, but I've never heard of a handful of potting soil killing anything. She didn't follow their planting instructions, so I looked up their instructions. Their instructions said fill hole with potting soil and their 10 dollar little bag of cow manure ... Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling my eyes.
Name: Mindy
Michigan (Zone 6b)
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HummingbirdRose
Jun 20, 2018 7:10 AM CST
I'm starting to research this myself, working with my agricultural inspector here in Michigan. I found a note in the Antique Rose Emporium's catalog I received that says "Please Note that roses entering Western States (CA, WA, AZ, NV, ID, UT) must be stripped of leaves due to agricultural protocol". I think some states have different agricultural requirements. I'm trying to get my hands around this since I will need to know. My Heirloom roses come stripped of leaves too, and the ones I've received from Greenmantle are also stripped. To me it's not uncommon.
Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 20, 2018 7:52 AM CST
@witchyWV, you bring up a good point. I'll admit I didn't do too much research. I just googled the type of rose I wanted and they came up on a sale. *Blush* Hopefully that bad CS is not a company wide business practice. They do mention in their instructions not use any fertilzer when planting. Mincing words with the miracle gro potting soil but...

@hummingbirdrose, that's a very interesting point. I wonder if NY has similar regulations or if it's a blanket statement they make to cover all bases in case you live in one of those states? Either way, I assume the roses you've gotten from them have fared well so that's a positive!

I'm on their FB page now I'm going to shoot them a message and ask about their defoliating practice.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jun 20, 2018 8:33 AM CST
Cynthia ... I almost agree with you ... Smiling

There are a lot of right ways to grow roses and some times we need to tweak things depending on our climate, soil and the rose.


The main two things you need to provide a rose planting it this late in the season is water and temporary shade. How much water depends on how much rain you've been getting. If you're waterlogged, the rose can get too much water, but in our abnormally dry climate we'd need to water periodically. In principle, the more often you water the rose, the more it's inclined to develop shallow roots and NEED that frequent watering longterm.


Absolutely. Basically when you first plant a rose, you are growing roots. I helps the rose a lot, if you grow a healthy root mass. That means you want the deep anchor roots and you want to do what you can to help the rose grow the feeder roots that are closer to the surface spread out from the crown of the rose. The healthier the root mass, the healthier the rose. The roots are the foundation of the plant.

I water deeply once a week and then do what I call a "feeder root watering" in the middle of the week. This watering is not intended to go deep down to the anchor roots, but to keep the feeder roots moist in my soil.

The house pad for my garden was cut out of a slope which is an active part of the watershed for the Trinity River. The soil beneath the surface is filled with a lot of small streams that collect water and then is a part of the process of sending water to the river. This kind of "soil" does not hold moisture, it collects moisture and sends it down the mountain.

The feeder root watering is sufficient to make the soil particles swell up and hold moisture in the root zone long enough for the plant to get the moisture it needs to survive in my hot dry summers.

If you can water deeply and give it an interval between watering, it can toughen up the rose. When first planted, I might water every day or two, but after that the whole bed gets weekly water in dry periods and no more than twice weekly in bad spells. Once it starts putting out new leaves, over the ones it had when it arrived, you can treat it more or less like your established roses.


In addition, I need to spray my roses down daily to avoid a spider mite infestation. Spider mites love hot and dry climates. The moisture the plant gets from being washed down creates a more humid environment than they like, so the infestation doesn't happen. Also, spraying down the roses, especially young roses, slows down the transpiration rate, the loss of moisture through the leaves, and allows the rose to take up moisture through the foliage. Young plants benefit more from being sprayed in the afternoons because they are not developed to the point where they can pull moisture up from the root zone to all of the top growth.

Temporary shade can be a yard umbrella or lawn chair posted over the rose till it grows new leaves.


Or you can use a tomato cage with a sheet pinned to it. I usually wet down the sheet to help keep more moisture around the plant.

I would hold off on any fertilizer until it puts out new leaves, and only use water soluble fertilizer weakly in the first year.


I do the same except for container plants. Even for those, it is wise to feed lightly and often.

In really hot 100 degree temperature like we've had since late May (and yes, it's zone 5), I wouldn't fertilize at all till things cool down.Cynthia


This is where we differ ... Smiling I still feed my roses during the hot months. My summer temps are usually in the 90s and low 100s all summer long. Since I live in the mountains, it does cool off at night.

It's the time of the feeding of a rose that makes a difference. I cannot use many organics because I live in the middle of a forest. Using many organics is like serving a buffet to the wildlife ... some of which I DO NOT want to meet up close and personal ... Smiling

I am not gardening in fertile soil, so I need to feed the plants during the summer months. The important part of the procedure is to feed the day AFTER the deep watering. The rose will take up what it needs and any excess will drain away.

Personally, I feel that I have to be responsible and not use too much nitrogen at one time because the excess will be drained into the water system.

Of course, mulching properly is important to maintaining plants during this type of heat ... Smiling

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Krista
Upstate NY (Zone 5a)
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Krista_5NY
Jun 20, 2018 2:37 PM CST
The roses I've received from Heirloom have had leaves removed, but they've been in excellent condition and well packed. The leaf removal has never been a concern. Their plants have usually been a very good size.
Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 21, 2018 8:13 AM CST
They responded to me with this, "We do this to protect and destress the plant in shipping so that you get a healthier plant. Change in pressures, temperatures, humidity etc can encourage blackspot and other problems in transit. Defoliating prevents this and the foliage returns quickly."

Sound legit? I honestly am too much of a noob to get into a back and forth conversation with them. They didn't respond to my request to ship intact so I guess all I can do is wait for their arrival and keep them shaded until they leaf out. Crossing Fingers!
SE Idaho (Zone 5a)
Region: Idaho Roses
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ashleys
Jun 21, 2018 8:43 AM CST
Yes I have bought many roses from Heirloom Roses that arrived defoliated and the leaves grew in healthy and seemingy quickly, and got a few small blooms the first year if I remember right. let me gather some photos to show you Big Grin
SE Idaho (Zone 5a)
Region: Idaho Roses
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ashleys
Jun 21, 2018 8:54 AM CST
Yay I found some great pics. Here is Quietness rose in 2016 looking a little twiggy and small, but so healthy and leafing out quickly after planting. (No shade or protection)


Thumb of 2018-06-21/ashleys/868720


Here is the rose later in the season looking amazing.



Thumb of 2018-06-21/ashleys/730064


Here is spring 2017 and you can see those thick basal canes emerging.




Thumb of 2018-06-21/ashleys/b58ac4



Here is spring 2018, and wow!




Thumb of 2018-06-21/ashleys/3ea250




I hope this helps. I imagine next year will be her most amazing yet, I did aggressive pruning this spring otherwise she would be even more "bushy"

Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 21, 2018 2:11 PM CST
@ashleys, thank you SO much for posting your pictures. They really went a long way at calming my fears over their roses. I've seen lots of conflicting reviews but mostly positive. Your rose looks very healthy indeed and look at all of those buds you got this spring! Beautiful!! Lovey dubby

Thanks again! Thank You!
Salem, Oregon
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gar99010
Jun 21, 2018 3:27 PM CST
just to argue the change in "Change in pressures, temperatures, humidity etc " comment. they stripped the leaves on a rose they sent me and I am 20 miles away. I think it is a policy to prevent any disease and or bugs from being transported, more than due to changes.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias
hampartsum
Jun 21, 2018 6:56 PM CST
Lyn
"The important part of the procedure is to feed the day AFTER the deep watering. The rose will take up what it needs and any excess will drain away.".
Actually by feeding right after watering what you are doing is a slow release feeding, specially if deep watering is done on a weekly basis. Nitrogen fertilizers are very soluble and they will dissolve in very little moisture as that which is left over after the deep watering. Gradually it will percolate down, first ( ideally) around the rose root zone, which will readily take up whatever nitrogen it needs. I wouldn't be concerned too much about excess runoff in your particular conditions: you are surrounded by wilderness and a nearby pasture that will be hungry for nitrogen so very little if any will reach the understreams of the watershed itself. It will be eaten by the existing vegetation long before. Nitrogen run off pollution is a serious concern in agricultural types of lands...not yours.
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
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AquaEyes
Jun 21, 2018 7:42 PM CST
My interest leans more toward the old roses, and I did order a bunch from Heirloom a few years back, but not since the new owners took over. Mostly it was because they no longer had anything I was looking for -- considering their company name, their list of old roses is much smaller now than it was back in the day, and I was already "late to the old rose party." But the roses I got from them were band-size -- basically rooted cuttings in 4-inch pots. I actually prefer getting roses smaller in Spring and planting them here in my own potting soil recipe in nursery pots to push growth before going in the ground in August or September. Considering you're on Long Island -- where I'm from originally, btw -- I don't think it makes much sense to buy own-root gallon-sized roses from the west coast when there's another fine nursery much closer -- Roses Unlimited in South Carolina. They're finishing up their shipping season right now, but their inventory is extensive, including both old, popular, and hard-to-find. The ordering process is a bit antiquated -- you either call or email what you want, and get a response to confirm if they're all available and a total bill -- but the quality of plants is great.

If you venture further into old roses, there are three great nurseries in Florida, but they lean toward the warm-climate oldies like Teas, Chinas, Noisettes, etc. They do have a handful of other interesting things as well. Their names are Rose Petals Nursery, Angel Gardens, and A Reverence for Roses. There are some nice things at the Antique Rose Emporium in Texas, and High Country Gardens in Colorado, as well. Since I'm new to this forum -- as one of those veering away from what was GardenWeb and is now Houzz -- I'm not yet allowed to post links. But if you google the names of those nurseries, you'll find their websites.

If you want to venture into the world of own-root roses in band-size, there are some other nurseries as well. But unless you have a mature garden with good soil, most bands would benefit from being potted up first to get more substantial before dealing with Long Island clay soil. It's possible to plant them directly, but whether in the pot or in the ground, they'll need some babying for their first season. I've just found that they grow faster potted, leaving them better able to handle their first Winter when planted in late Summer or early Autumn.

:-)

~Christopher
[Last edited by AquaEyes - Jun 21, 2018 8:09 PM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jun 21, 2018 8:48 PM CST

Moderator

I have had many reasons not to buy roses from Heirloom over the years. In the past, even when I was buying hundreds of roses each year, I would shy away from Heirloom because my first order in 2005 consisted of three toothpicks no more than 2 or 3 inches tall. One of those was also mislabeled, and I found that Heirloom's mislabeling rate was a shocking 50%, at least in my experience. Over a period of more than 10 years, I bought only 10 roses from Heirloom, mainly because the roses weren't available anywhere else, and 5 of the 10 were mislabeled. What's worse, when I would report the mislabeling to them and send them photos of the mislabeled roses they had sent me, they never responded. Did they think I was just someone who liked to send rose photos through the mail?

Now that the nursery has new owners, there's a new reason that could alienate even their most loyal customers. The prices are ludicrous. Last November the nursery was offering a 1-gallon own-root Sterling Silver rose for $99. Sterling Silver is not an elusive rose! It can be purchased from a multitude of sources for a fraction of the price Heirloom was charging.

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