Roses forum: I.D. this hardy, re-blooming charmer?

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Name: Anne
Tip of the Mitten (Zone 5a)
AnneCecilia
Jun 22, 2018 7:33 PM CST
I have photos of a rose that my friend Peggi grows in Traverse City, Michigan. She got it as a start from a woman who did not know its name, and she passed along a piece of it to me years ago. I liked it so much that it was one of the rose that made the cut and was transplanted to my garden when I moved 6 years ago. So I had it growing first in zone 4, where it stayed smallish - about 3' tall and wide, and then moved it to a zone 5 garden where it send out 6' canes (or longer) and threaded itself through a tall hydrangea bush planted next to it. Peggi grows it in a zone 5/almost zone 6 garden where pruning for winter die-back is never needed. It is a monster shrub, mounding on top of itself and she only prunes a bit to shape it. This past winter was a tough one in my garden with unusual repeated and extended thaws followed by sudden deep freezes below zero. This rose, which unfortunately had lost the shelter of its companion hydrangea when I dug that up and moved it last fall, suffered severe cane die back and had to be pruned to the ground. I lost canes on many roses that had up to then been cane hardy in zone 5, so I take that as an anomaly. But in any case, my rose is quite tiny this spring - about 2 x 2' overall, so these photos are all from Peggi's garden. We're hoping someone here will put a name to this rose for us. The blooms are quite small (about 1") and button eyed. There is some fragrance, but nothing remarkable. The main flush is in spring, but there is plenty of re-bloom as the shrub continues to grow and send out new trusses of blooms through the season up until freeze. The leaves are shiny and dark green. We're guessing some it might be in the polyantha class? Anyone with any guesses, you're more than welcome! Thanks for taking the time to read all this and consider.

Thumb of 2018-06-23/AnneCecilia/446bae


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Name: Virginia
Charleston, SC (Zone 8b)
Köppen climate classification Cfa
Image
scvirginia
Jun 23, 2018 12:03 AM CST
My best guess is 'Prosperity':
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

The foliage, buds, blooms and reddish, fuzzy peduncles (flowerstalks) all look similar to me.

HMF gives the hardiness as only to 6b, but I think that's a default, so I'm not sure if it's hardy enough to be your rose. It is grown in cold-climate gardens, but possibly with winter protection?

I don't grow it, but hopefully someone who does can give a more informed opinion about an ID.

It's lovely, whatever it is.

Virginia

Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jun 23, 2018 12:40 AM CST

Moderator

I do grow Prosperity and I agree with Virginia that your rose looks like Prosperity. The hardiness information in HMF is not the default in this case, but I'm in zone 9, so I can't tell you anything about the level of protection it might require in a lower zone.

Name: Virginia
Charleston, SC (Zone 8b)
Köppen climate classification Cfa
Image
scvirginia
Jun 23, 2018 12:44 AM CST
FWIW, the Canadian Nursery, Palatine, gives the hardiness as 5b
https://palatineroses.com/rose...
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Jun 23, 2018 1:43 AM CST

Moderator

As I recall, Palatine gives the hardiness of every rose as 5b. Big Grin
Name: Virginia
Charleston, SC (Zone 8b)
Köppen climate classification Cfa
Image
scvirginia
Jun 23, 2018 2:39 AM CST
zuzu said:As I recall, Palatine gives the hardiness of every rose as 5b. Big Grin


Well, that's useful!

Not. Rolling my eyes.
Name: Anne
Tip of the Mitten (Zone 5a)
AnneCecilia
Jun 23, 2018 5:48 AM CST
Thank you both for your suggestion - I'm not entirely convinced, but I'm looking closely at HMF's info. It's a bit confusing because it seems like blooms in most of the photos show a somewhat larger or higher crowned rose. I will do more research into Prosperity though as it's certainly a possibility. And as I had told Peggi, our unnamed white reminded me of Marie Jeanne on steroids....interestingly enough Marie Jeanne is one of the parents of Prosperity. What d'ya know!
I did find one photo I had of mine back when it was entwined with the hydrangea. It shows the bloom trusses more open - or even past their prime.

Thumb of 2018-06-23/AnneCecilia/2e7729

Name: Virginia
Charleston, SC (Zone 8b)
Köppen climate classification Cfa
Image
scvirginia
Jun 23, 2018 5:37 PM CST
If 'Prosperity' doesn't pass the "that looks so familiar" test, perhaps one of these two Polyanthas will do better?

'Yvonne Rabier'
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...
Rose (Rosa 'Yvonne Rabier')

"Katharina Zeimet' AKA 'White Baby Rambler'
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...
Rose (Rosa 'Katharina Zeimet')

In your full-plant photo, your friend is growing it as a shrub, but do you think it may be more of a rambler at heart? If so, that could be a good line of inquiry.

Virginia
Name: Anne
Tip of the Mitten (Zone 5a)
AnneCecilia
Jun 24, 2018 6:36 PM CST
Thank you, Virginia - both of those rose have much in common with our mystery rose - except for size. Everything I've read about them says small shrub - about two foot tall and that is not what we have at all. If anyone said that Katharine Ziemet grew to be 6' tall under certain conditions I'd say "Aha!" No, I think the "more of a rambler at heart" is spot on. Still searching...
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jun 24, 2018 7:20 PM CST
As you search, you could also look at other hybrid musk roses, which is the class of rose for 'Prosperity'.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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nippstress
Jun 25, 2018 2:47 PM CST
FWIW, I'd say the guesses of Prosperity or its kin are more likely than the guesses I've seen elsewhere of Seafoam, which in my experience gets huge but pretty scruffy and not the lovely blooms you have here. I have yet to get Prosperity to survive my winters, even in my protected spot, though I have a lot of hybrid musks and they do well for the most part. I am really poor at rose ID, but one that I have been able to overwinter that sort of reminds me of this is Penelope. Cornelia and Felicia also survive and have largish blooms when happy, but they have more of a pinkish tinge than you show in this shot.
Whatever it is, it's lovely and it's great to see the success of these passalong plants!
Cynthia
Name: Bridget
Baton Rouge, LA (Zone 9a)
C’est la vie .........
Berrycajun
Feb 3, 2020 8:25 PM CST
Ducher maybe??
After all, tomorrow is another day!
— Katie Scarlett O’Hara

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