Roses forum: New rose border suggestions

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Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias
hampartsum
Jun 28, 2018 4:53 AM CST
Hi Lola, from one other southern end part of the world. Our sheep ( East Friesian milch sheep) ought to be lambing not before the end of August. My place is much colder than yours and we recently had standing snow. More is expected by next tuesday. Our sheep are kept inside a barn in winter and sleep inside every night.
Back to roses, I've got quite a collection of. D.As here. I'm expecting a fairly tall growing Othello so it's placed in the back. My William Morris which is in the pink apricot range grew very tall as well. I had to move it towards the back of the border. On the other end my Francine Austin behaves very nicely like a front line ground cover rose. Evelyn just arrived but I have high expectations around it. Other newcomers will be Summer Song, Lady Hamilton, Grace, William Shakespeare 2000 and Benjamin Britten. They'll be shipped sometime in July bare root. So actually the only way to find out how your D.A s perform is just by trying them out there. The general descriptions usually found in the Internet rarely fit into what actually ends up happening in any specific site, unless it refers to the original UK conditions. Some overgrow, others grow smaller than stated... Shrug!
I tend to keep my roses growing much closer than yours. We have very windy conditions in general. Is your place wind prone? By growing roses closer I tend to get a thicker growth mass altogether, thus reduce damage from wind rock. I prefer to just grow roses in a given bed and reduce planting with other plants to just edges so that cleaning, and pruning chores are easily done without worrying of stepping on underplanted flowers.
My yellow group of 4 year Austins are about a 1.2 mts tall. So they may eventually grow higher and I'm thinking of pillaring them right inside the middle of the border .They are: G.Thomas, The Pilgrim, Charlotte, Molyneux ; a second group that blends well with these are the apricots: Crown Princess Margharetta, Abraham Darby and Golden Celebration half way between both types of coloration. All of these are spaced out about 70 cm in between and there's enough air space between bushes. Of course this may change as bushes grow larger and I might have to space them out. Here at least I haven't found much trouble of transplanting bushes if required. They seem to adapt if the moving around is done in early fall (April) while the soil is warm from summer but already nicely moist from the first rains.
I enjoyed your posts depicting your garden setting in the countryside. Thank You!
Arturo
Name: Lola
Tasmania
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Image
LolaTasmania
Jun 28, 2018 5:14 AM CST
I had to put the catalogue away because I had made so many notations on it that I couldn't tell what I had ordered from what I had decided against buying. Treloar's don't have much variation from year to year and I have a feeling we still get quite a few roses that the US and Europe no longer have access to.

The sheep do provide me with manure for the garden but when I go out into the paddock with a bucket to collect it they think I am bringing them food. I end up with sheep trying to pick my pockets and biting my clothes because they don't believe I am picking up and not dropping off. Lola.
Name: Lola
Tasmania
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Image
LolaTasmania
Jun 28, 2018 5:33 AM CST
Hi Arturo, this is the first year I have left the ram in with the ewes for the whole year so it is the earliest I have ever had lambs. I used to time it for October so the weather was warmer but I thought I would let the girls have a natural cycle for a change. So far we have 90% twins and 10% singles with females 80% and males 20%. They stay outside all year round.

It does get pretty windy down here and I hadn't thought of how the new rose bed would handle it. There are some outbuildings down the hill that should shelter them from the worst of it but I may need to rethink the spacing of the plants.

I have never seen Golden Celebration in the flesh but have ordered it to grow near my Charles Rennie Macintosh. Do you think these colours will clash? I can put it in a pot for a year if it may be a problem and move it to a new bed next year. Lola

Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias
hampartsum
Jun 28, 2018 5:58 AM CST
Hi Lola, I tried hard to Id your C.R.Macintosh with no avail. Its not listed in the Treloar catalog or HMF. Could you provide me a link or a picture?
In my experience, when I place my bushes, color is just one other criterion. Sometimes colors may clash as seen on a piece of paper; yet when grown together the mere contrast seems to provide interest. This question reminds me of our conversations with my late wife, a professional painter, when we discussed color palettes in the garden. She taught me a lot about how to handle colour. What tends to outstand color is the overall greenery of the bush and these easily blend together which provides visual continuity. Next comes the differing textures that add more interest to the border. Not all Austins have the same textures In trying to achieve a beautiful border she also pointed out the need of "movement" in such a way that the observing eye will be led to move around which enhances the visual experience. Also included are questions like volume ,shape and proportion. These are all structural which means that they are more or less there all the growing season. Finally the rose blooms themselves appear, usually in flushes, not all Austin flush synchronized so after a few seasons you'll discover which actually end up by clashing so...you just find a different spot and move it/them there. You'd be surprised to find that many bushes that would look unhappy together (color wise) on paper fit in your landscape beautifully. Finally there's the matter of personal taste and again in my experience I need to try out before I finally set it in its definitive position. Perhaps I've extended too much in my explanation... D'Oh!
Arturo
Name: Lola
Tasmania
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Image
LolaTasmania
Jun 28, 2018 6:15 AM CST
Your comment has made my mind up, Arturo. CRM is a lilac cupped Austin that tends to a pink in fall. I will plant Golden Celebration next to CRM because I think my first instinct of wanting it there was correct and I have been overthinking it ever since. I can see that part of the garden from the chair I sit in at the computer so it has to be a harmonious colour grouping, but I always end up outside looking at the finer details of the flowers, and the form of the petals are similar so they won't clash. My late father was a photographic artist who only worked in monochrome so texture rather than colour is what I am most comfortable with. Lola.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Jun 28, 2018 6:41 AM CST
Lola, this has nothing to do with roses, but I am curious about your lambing statistics. How does this year's crop compare to what you had come to expect when you limited the lambing season?
Porkpal
Name: Lola
Tasmania
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Image
LolaTasmania
Jun 28, 2018 6:43 AM CST
This is CRM in a pink mood. She is a definite lilac at the start of the season. I apologise for the style of photo as I was testing my new camera for light and flash.
Thumb of 2018-06-28/LolaTasmania/e804b4

Name: Lola
Tasmania
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Image
LolaTasmania
Jun 28, 2018 6:55 AM CST
Hi Porkpal, I used to get 60% twins with around 60% female. I used to be able to compare my rate to other farms around me and we would all get around the same yield as we all had the same available feed and conditions as each other. This year I am the first to lamb so I don't know whether my neighbours will have the same result. Perhaps my ewes being joined in a drought season has made them more prone to twins and females, and other sheep who were joined after the autumn rains may run to singles or males? I have already lost one small weak male who was a twin but his sister was strong and healthy. I will keep you posted as to what happens later in the season. I am keeping daily records and charts so I can keep track of things. Lola.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias
hampartsum
Jun 28, 2018 7:26 AM CST
Lola, I finally did find photos of CRM and actually your instinct is very correct. The colours are each other's complements. Golden Celebration is yellow with quite a lot of orange to it. The orange in GC is what gives it its warm coloring while the blues in the pink of CRM are what cools the overall colour of CRM . These two together ought to look great. Now you have to get both to flower at the same time... Smiling Perhaps by Christmas that may happen Crossing Fingers!
Arturo
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jun 28, 2018 11:24 AM CST

Moderator

Arturo, why didn't you look for Charles Rennie Mackintosh in our database?

Rose (Rosa 'Charles Rennie Mackintosh')
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias
hampartsum
Jun 28, 2018 4:13 PM CST
@Zuzu, thank you so much for your concern! Thank You! I sometimes fumble my search and get nowhere... D'Oh! Although I greatly value Internet, forums and dbases, I reckon that I miss options by not doing an exhaustive search in ALL alternatives. CRM is a very unusual Austin. It is hardly mentioned, yet a very interesting cross. Quite old, but from my quests it has not arrived yet to these latitudes. My rose garden as it grows in size and diversity is that of a potential hobby breeder, so my interests lie mainly in what a new rose will contribute to, specifically adapted to my local, rather cool summer conditions. The D.A. roses as a general rule fall into that category. Thanks to this site,forum, and thread I now have added a new rose in my search of alternatives. Thank You!
Arturo
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Jun 28, 2018 5:05 PM CST

Moderator

For some reason, the Austins of the mauve color category have never been very popular. The others I know of are Young Lycidas and Chianti, which are darker and could be called purple, and Wise Portia, which is closer to magenta. Charles Rennie Mackintosh is the only lavender--mauve Austin I've seen.
MO zone 6a
JudithL
Jul 1, 2018 7:12 AM CST
For those 14' stems, I think attaching them to an arching trellis over the pathway would make an interesting addition to your landscape.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
Image
Mustbnuts
Jul 6, 2018 3:27 AM CST
Wish I could help on the placement of the roses, but I can't as I am not very familiar with the varieties you are asking about (sorry for the bad English).
I hear that mauve roses are amoungst the most difficult to breed, so that may be why there are so few in the DA line. I would love to see some along with some stripey ones as stripey ones are my favorite. It is like getting two for the price of one.
When I was considering getting Darcy B at one time, when I spoke with the DA folks in Texas, they stated that the colors of DA roses are so soft that it would be difficult to find a combination that would clash. So, I think you are pretty good in whatever you decide to put next to each other.
How is lambing season going? I have to tell you that in this hot parched landscape of mine at the current moment, remembering your beautiful land and garden and adorable lambs, is so refreshing and so beautiful. Makes me look forward to the fall.
Name: Lola
Tasmania
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Image
LolaTasmania
Jul 6, 2018 5:28 AM CST
I still have two ewes to go and they don't seem to be in any hurry to pop either. I look at them every morning and they never show signs of labour or of having an udder but they are HUGE. They lie down most of the day with their giant bellies spilling out to the side looking uncomfortable but they just smile sweetly at me like they have nothing better to do. At this rate all the other lambs will have been marked before the last are born. Marking is where you put tight rubber bands around the tails and testicles to stop the blood supply. After a few weeks these fall off by themselves.

I have planted all but one of my roses now as Evelyn has not yet arrived. The rains here have made the ground very squishy but the grass is now so green that it hurts my eyes to look out over the valley.
Thumb of 2018-07-06/LolaTasmania/f82acb


Thumb of 2018-07-06/LolaTasmania/84fb6f

Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
Image
Mustbnuts
Jul 6, 2018 8:32 AM CST
Your garden/farm is so beautiful. The green is so refreshing for me to see. Right now, there is nothing but brown in the hills around my house and dead pine trees in the mountains (pine beetle problems). You sheep look so contented and the lambs are just adorable. I think I need to move there for the summer!
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Jul 6, 2018 11:04 AM CST

Moderator

Stranger is a striped mauve rose, Mustbnuts. We don't have any photos in our entry yet, but I think @Beth_NorCal has the rose and would be able to add some.

Rose (Rosa 'Stranger')
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
Image
Mustbnuts
Jul 7, 2018 3:10 AM CST
Had to look Stranger up as I have never heard of this rose (which is true for a lot of roses). Burling has it! Interesting. My hunch is it has been used as a breeding rose but I could be very wrong. It reminds me of my Vick's Caprice which I just love. Vick's took some time to come into his own (that sly devil) but he is finally a pretty much continuous bloomer in this weather and conditions of mine. He is also own root so I expect him to take some time to get "up to snuff." Lola, he might be a pretty addition to your hedge but I don't know if you can get him down there. He is an "old" rose from the late 1800's, I believe. He is a charmer. If you can get him Lola (and if you liked him), I think he would do well in your climate. He can take the heat. He has had no disease in my garden. He is also pretty thornless as well.






Actually, I was referring to DA not having any striped roses that he has developed. Don't know if he just doesn't like them or considers them to be virused. Although I have seen pictures of his "development" beds and there was a stripey in there!

Name: Lola
Tasmania
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
Image
LolaTasmania
Jul 7, 2018 4:54 PM CST
This photo doesn't show the colour variation but these are the roses I have put in the new border minus Evelyn who hasn't arrived yet. I couldn't get the light right because it is windy and snowy and I had to use the flash.
Thumb of 2018-07-07/LolaTasmania/d0292e

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Jul 7, 2018 6:42 PM CST
Even if the colors are not exact, they all look compatible to me. A very nice selection!
Porkpal

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