Cactus and Succulents forum: Photo page photo mismatches

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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 12:42 AM CST
So far, Ive noticed discrepancies among
-selenicereus grandiflorus sbsp grandiflorus
-parodia microsperma
-haageocereus pseudomelanostele.
Most have been verified.
Id you find yourselves browsing cactus/succulent photos, and spot a mismatch, please report it here.
[Last edited by skopjecollection - Jul 7, 2018 12:43 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1756413 (1)
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Foliage Fan Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder
Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
Image
Baja_Costero
Jul 7, 2018 12:59 AM CST

Moderator

Let's get into the details here if you don't mind. These pictures are not of the right plants? Let's fix this.



[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Jul 7, 2018 1:07 AM (+)]
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 7:18 AM CST
One was rectified, as discussed in the topic The thread "Wrong ID-epiphyllum." in Photo of Queen of the Night (Epiphyllum oxypetalum)
if you recall,
for the last , i already opened a topic.
Not to have to open a topic for each issue individually, thought it would be better to open a thread here.
[Last edited by skopjecollection - Jul 7, 2018 7:20 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1756517 (3)
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 7:33 AM CST
Found another one- a gymno. bruschii under echinocereus reinbachii
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 7:35 AM CST
And another, something, either echinopsis or another echinocereus under triglochidatus
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 7:42 AM CST
And a echinopsis subdenuata under echinopsis ancistophora

Just for reference
http://www.llifle.com/Encyclop...
and
http://cactiguide.com/cactus/?...
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 7:45 AM CST
And under echinopsis obrepanda, some other kind of echinopsis, somehow purple and not matching the shape...
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 7:46 AM CST
Echinocereus under echinopsis petlandii

Echinopsis (Echinopsis pentlandii)
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 7:49 AM CST
Common echinopsis:
Echinopsis (Echinopsis tarijensis)
under Echinopsis tarijensis
http://www.llifle.com/Encyclop...
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Container Gardener Region: West Virginia Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Jai_Ganesha
Jul 7, 2018 8:23 AM CST
skopjecollection said:And a echinopsis subdenuata under echinopsis ancistophora

Just for reference
http://www.llifle.com/Encyclop...
and
http://cactiguide.com/cactus/?...


I have these, and I've been confused by their current nomenclature, too. Just so that I'm on the same page as science and the database, I want to confirm that I understand things correctly:

"Echinopsis ancistrophora" is the correct binomial designation,

AND

"Echinopsis subdenuata" is outdated, correct?

See here:


Thumb of 2018-07-07/Jai_Ganesha/f9e516

Keep going!
[Last edited by Jai_Ganesha - Jul 7, 2018 8:34 AM (+)]
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 8:52 AM CST
I wouldnt know, but subdenudata is subdenudata, while ancistophora is flatter and more diverse,
http://cactiguide.com/cactus/?...
Echinopsis is still a mess after being merged. Something called subdenudata cannot be ancistophora, while something under ancistophora already exists. Whether they accepted it or not, validity is another matter altogether.....
[Last edited by skopjecollection - Jul 7, 2018 8:56 AM (+)]
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Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Container Gardener Region: West Virginia Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Jai_Ganesha
Jul 7, 2018 8:57 AM CST
"Echinopsis subdenudata" appears to be an outdated synonym of "Echinopsis ancistophora," from the way I understand things.
Keep going!
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 8:58 AM CST
The issue is, this site uses new nomenclauture for some, while it uses old nomeclature for other plants...And we know some of the old ones are wrong(like rebutia cintia)
Name: Thijs van Soest
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
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mcvansoest
Jul 7, 2018 10:41 AM CST
This site uses the Catalog of Life for what it considers valid names. There is no way for you to change that. I have tried. So in the CoL E. subdenudata is considered a synonym of E. ancistrophora no matter what you think about how plants that come with either of these names might be different, unless a change is made in CoL no one that matters for how things are classified here is going to agree with you.

Also no one of admin is going to look at these unless you open a specific case as a comment with the specific photo or photos in the database. It will just be us cactus nuts looking at this. If you want to correct mistakes you feel are in the database (and yes there are plenty, enough that I have simply given up) you will have to follow the procedure of commenting on the specific database pictures.

This thread is interesting but unless someone like Baja is going to take the cases you report here and do the work of reporting them for you it will likely not go very far.
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Foliage Fan Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder
Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
Image
Baja_Costero
Jul 7, 2018 10:42 AM CST

Moderator

skopjecollection said:Not to have to open a topic for each issue individually, thought it would be better to open a thread here.


I don't mind a thread with all the images you suspect are wrong, especially since it will draw more eyes to view the situation, but the only really effective way to resolve them is to post a comment about each image/plant separately. I'm sorry about the extra work but it's very important to involve the original contributor in the process (which these comments will do, since they alert that person) and it's much easier to sort out the details when it's done one plant at a time. Exactly like what happened in this thread you started.

The thread "Wrong ID-epiphyllum." in Photo of Queen of the Night (Epiphyllum oxypetalum)

I would appreciate the input of @mcvansoest and all the other resident cactiphiles in the Plant Photo forum as these threads roll through. If you aren't already "watching" that forum, you will find the activity can be interesting to track.
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Jul 7, 2018 10:44 AM (+)]
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 10:42 AM CST
The echinopsis ancistophora aside, you will find the other subjects misplaced among other photos....
Name: Thijs van Soest
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
Plant Identifier Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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mcvansoest
Jul 7, 2018 10:51 AM CST
skopjecollection said:And under echinopsis obrepanda, some other kind of echinopsis, somehow purple and not matching the shape...


OK, this makes no sense. You have an issue because the plant has purple stress colors and a different shape? The plant is stressed - hence it is purple and the stress probably also explains its shrunken look. The flower which is probably not super diagnostic in most Echinopsis ID's actually appears to match quite well with the other pictures.

So many cacti change color and shape under different growing conditions that those are just not very good arguments just by themselves.
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Image
skopjecollection
Jul 7, 2018 11:56 AM CST
Ive seen stressed echinopsis. Ive seen dehydrated echinopsis too. But the plant in that photo? Rib and spine structure is all wrong. Resembles more like the lobivia types , rather than classic echinopsis
https://www.cactiguide.com/cac...
Its clearly not a calorubra or purpera, and it doesnt match the subspecies. Im saying its either a hybrid, or something else, that is hard to ID without seeing a photo of it unstressed.
Name: Thijs van Soest
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
Plant Identifier Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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mcvansoest
Jul 7, 2018 4:15 PM CST
I disagree. Clearly you have not seen any really stressed water starved plants. Aside from the stress factor changing a plant's appearance, these plants have plenty of natural variation. Enough that unless the poster of the picture chimes in to say they did not know what it was at the time of posting that picture to the database there is no reason to assume it is not E. obrepanda.


Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Container Gardener Region: West Virginia Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
Jai_Ganesha
Jul 7, 2018 5:05 PM CST
Thijs is right. Not just for this species, but for lots of cacti--there's a lot of variation within a species.

The place where one species begins and the other ends is not always clear, and I suspect but have no empirical way of proving that many genera are way over-split and have many fewer species than we think they do.
Keep going!

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