Roses forum: Seeking suggestions

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Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 8, 2018 5:32 PM CST
Since September is considered the warmest season here in San Francisco, I decided to plant two climbers in the mini-front yard this month. I live in zone 10a/10b with microclimate. I made more space for two climbers in the mini front-yard, as seen in the image, next to the Lady of Shallot climber. I got the ground soil ready when the plants will arrive next week. The two climbers that will accompany the already planted Lady of Shallot climber are New Dawn and Florentia. I've marked the planting area in yellow in the image. The ones marked in red are where I would like to plant the Pretty in Pink ground roses. What do you guys think? Would it be too much? Sounds like a feasible idea?

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On a different note, I had my first transplantation experience. With favorable weather, I decided to take the plunge and do it for I was worried about Mister Lincoln growing in an 18" deep/16" diameter pot. I transplanted it into 24" diameter/26" deep glazed pot, as seen below. As expected, it did suffer from shock, but it has been three days, and so far it is fairing decently. The image seen below was taken this morning. I hyper-watered it after feeding it vitamin B1 (mixed with water) immediately after transplantation. I am debating whether or not to prune the bent stem or leave it as it is. Would it hurt if I leave it as it is?

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As fate would have it, the Amazon delivery guy rammed his truck into one of the pots by the driveway yesterday morning. It was frustrating for me because the Ebb Tide (floribunda) rose was starting to bud. The last thing I wanted to do was transplant it during its non-dormant season, but I was left with no option. I transplanted it into a bigger pot and followed the same post-transplantation process as I did for Mister Lincoln. Supringisingly, it didn't suffer from shock, and it is doing well.

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Lastly, the Princess Alexandra of Kent English rose can be seen growing well, but it is spreading out that is visually unappealing. Would it help if I put it the stake (or some support) and tie the stems to it so it will grow more uniformly? I read about pegging and I am not sure if that's applicable to the shrub rose. It does get windy sometimes, and I feel that probably influences the rose to branch out irregularly.

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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jul 8, 2018 5:42 PM CST

Moderator

Is your heart set on New Dawn? It grows into a huge monster with wicked, evil thorns. No one will be able to read the meter if New Dawn is anywhere near it. In fact, I was thinking of starting a thread about the roses people regret growing, and New Dawn was going to be the subject of my first post in that thread.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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porkpal
Jul 8, 2018 5:44 PM CST
I have New Dawn growing on a barbed wire fence. They seem to be compatible.
Porkpal
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 8, 2018 6:33 PM CST
zuzu said:Is your heart set on New Dawn? It grows into a huge monster with wicked, evil thorns. No one will be able to read the meter if New Dawn is anywhere near it. In fact, I was thinking of starting a thread about the roses people regret growing, and New Dawn was going to be the subject of my first post in that thread.


I wasn't aware of that. I've read it is shade tolerant and a vigorous grower. What would be the best replacement for it? I ordered it from Heirloom roses and will be shipped in the week of 7/9/17. I guess, I still have time to call Hierloom directly tomorrow and change the order.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jul 8, 2018 6:54 PM CST

Moderator

Zephirine Drouhin is a nice shade-tolerant climber with no thorns, but I'm still worried about the small space into which you're planning to fit three roses. Anything other than a groundcover plant will block access to your meter. Lady of Shalott and Florentina are large rose bushes, and whereas Lady of Shalott might remain a mannerly upright plant, Florentina is likely to send out canes in every direction. If you try to bunch those canes together into one vertical mass, all of the blooms will be at the very top and nowhere else.
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
Garden Photography I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Seed Starter Container Gardener Bulbs
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Mike
Jul 8, 2018 7:12 PM CST
For some perspective, this is New Dawn growing up to the second-floor deck of my previous home. I grew it there intentionally, and absolutely loved it. But as you can see, it's not suited for a tight corner. It can grow into a monstrous plant; mine spanned 15 feet across.

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Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 8, 2018 9:49 PM CST
zuzu said:Zephirine Drouhin is a nice shade-tolerant climber with no thorns, but I'm still worried about the small space into which you're planning to fit three roses. Anything other than a groundcover plant will block access to your meter. Lady of Shalott and Florentina are large rose bushes, and whereas Lady of Shalott might remain a mannerly upright plant, Florentina is likely to send out canes in every direction. If you try to bunch those canes together into one vertical mass, all of the blooms will be at the very top and nowhere else.


Guess I'll just plant the Florentina and the ground roses then. I was a but skeptical planting three close to each other in a small space.

Who knew rose hobby would be so addicting?!
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 8, 2018 9:51 PM CST
Mike said:For some perspective, this is New Dawn growing up to the second-floor deck of my previous home. I grew it there intentionally, and absolutely loved it. But as you can see, it's not suited for a tight corner. It can grow into a monstrous plant; mine spanned 15 feet across.

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Yikes! Yea, I don't think I would like that :-/
Thanks for sharing the visual!
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 9, 2018 12:04 AM CST
zuzu said:... Florentina is likely to send out canes in every direction. If you try to bunch those canes together into one vertical mass, all of the blooms will be at the very top and nowhere else.


How about installing a support structure/pillar and I wrap the Florentina around it? or perhaps pegging method? I remember reading your "Training Climbing Roses" post, and I wonder if I could use Florentina as an opportunity to test-try training it?

Also, I just realized that the Lady of Shallot I planted is a shrub rose, not a climbing rose. Don't know why I thought it was a climber all along.
[Last edited by Rose_Guy1127 - Jul 9, 2018 12:45 AM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jul 9, 2018 1:24 AM CST

Moderator

You're right: Florentina should work well as a pillar rose. Just make sure you wrap it around the pillar or other support structure while the canes are still young and pliable.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jul 9, 2018 4:51 AM CST
I grow both Lady of Shalott and Princess Alexandra of Kent.

Princess started out on its own root and the first year I planted it in my yard, it threw people eater canes over 8 feet in length. It is a beautiful rose but it needs a lot of space in our environment and it has a tendency to grow out and up. I had to keep her tied back not to eat people as they came to my front door.

Lady of Shalott gets tall. I had her in a pot for a few years (again own root) and now have her in my side yard. She gets to be over 6 feet tall and I have to prune her as well not to eat people who go into my garden from the side yard.

As others have said, the space where you want to grow the climbers is too small from how your pictures look. Most climbers and DA roses need space in our climate. They get HUGE! Plus you will need something for your roses to climb on and again I wonder about that size of the space.

I have a small climber that I love! It grows about three feet tall and is a great rose. It is Peppermint Parfait. Great disease resistance and it is a pretty little thing. Let me see if I can get a picture of it. It might be great for your spot. Oh, and it is practically thornless if someone is trying to read a meter. Another plus. I just use a tomato cage for her to climb on. Although I think she would appreciate something prettier if you wanted to do that. She is almost always in bloom as well.

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Oh, yes, I too grow roses in pots. Have for decades. As you can see, they are on my drip system. Smiling

Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 9, 2018 9:17 AM CST
Mustbnuts said:I grow both Lady of Shalott and Princess Alexandra of Kent.

Princess started out on its own root and the first year I planted it in my yard, it threw people eater canes over 8 feet in length. It is a beautiful rose but it needs a lot of space in our environment and it has a tendency to grow out and up. I had to keep her tied back not to eat people as they came to my front door.

Lady of Shalott gets tall. I had her in a pot for a few years (again own root) and now have her in my side yard. She gets to be over 6 feet tall and I have to prune her as well not to eat people who go into my garden from the side yard.

As others have said, the space where you want to grow the climbers is too small from how your pictures look. Most climbers and DA roses need space in our climate. They get HUGE! Plus you will need something for your roses to climb on and again I wonder about that size of the space.

I have a small climber that I love! It grows about three feet tall and is a great rose. It is Peppermint Parfait. Great disease resistance and it is a pretty little thing. Let me see if I can get a picture of it. It might be great for your spot. Oh, and it is practically thornless if someone is trying to read a meter. Another plus. I just use a tomato cage for her to climb on. Although I think she would appreciate something prettier if you wanted to do that. She is almost always in bloom as well.

Thumb of 2018-07-09/Mustbnuts/c40cc4


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Thumb of 2018-07-09/Mustbnuts/ab5fac

Oh, yes, I too grow roses in pots. Have for decades. As you can see, they are on my drip system. Smiling



Thanks for your suggestion! It looks like my Princess is starting to get gangly as well. I got to train it before it gets worse for I have it by the front door as well.

As for the climbing rose, I will be installing a wall trellis for the climber. I'm gonna start out with a pillar, and when it outgrows it, I will train it to latch on to the wall trellis.

I'm thankful that Zuzu and Mike warned me about New Dawn. I'll be on the phone with Heirloom to cancel the order. I don't want a monstrous bush with thorns in front of my house. And I love Peppermint Parfait, thanks for recommending! I need to explore more small climbers.
[Last edited by Rose_Guy1127 - Jul 10, 2018 12:06 AM (+)]
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Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 9, 2018 9:19 AM CST
zuzu said:You're right: Florentina should work well as a pillar rose. Just make sure you wrap it around the pillar or other support structure while the canes are still young and pliable.


Thanks, will do!
When you say young, you mean young as the size of Lady of Shallot seen in the image uploaded in my original post of this thread?
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jul 9, 2018 11:54 AM CST

Moderator

No, I don't mean young in size. I mean young enough to still be pliable. After that, they'll get thick and inflexible and they'll be much more difficult to train around a pillar.
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 9, 2018 1:25 PM CST
zuzu said:No, I don't mean young in size. I mean young enough to still be pliable. After that, they'll get thick and inflexible and they'll be much more difficult to train around a pillar.


Got it, thanks!
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 9, 2018 2:17 PM CST
'Peppermint Parfait' is not really a climber, it is a miniflora shrub-type rose and would do much better in your containers than some of the "big" roses will do over time. It's a smaller plant, so the roots won't grow as large and it will be a few years before you have to replace the soil.

The seed parent of 'Peppermint Parfait' is 'Sequoia Gold' and when it is not trained to grow up as a climber, it has the same plant habit of SG:





These photos were taken in spring during the beginning of the first flush.

btw @Mustbnuts 'Sequoia Gold' holds up to high temps just fine .... :smily:

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 9, 2018 8:34 PM CST
RoseBlush1 said:'Peppermint Parfait' is not really a climber, it is a miniflora shrub-type rose and would do much better in your containers than some of the "big" roses will do over time. It's a smaller plant, so the roots won't grow as large and it will be a few years before you have to replace the soil.

The seed parent of 'Peppermint Parfait' is 'Sequoia Gold' and when it is not trained to grow up as a climber, it has the same plant habit of SG:





These photos were taken in spring during the beginning of the first flush.

btw @Mustbnuts 'Sequoia Gold' holds up to high temps just fine .... :smily:



I added Sequoia Gold to my list of roses to grow next season! Looks gorgeous!

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Jul 9, 2018 9:09 PM CST
Remember. you don't need a big yard to grow plenty of roses. Many do well in containers. (We wouldn't want you to limit your rose addiction,)
Porkpal
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jul 9, 2018 9:38 PM CST
Lyn, I have had Sequoia Gold for about 20 years. I picked it up from Ralph Moore at his nursery prior to his death. This year it has been a blooming machine. Didn't know it was one of the parents of Peppermint Parfait.

I also have (I think) one of the halo series of roses that he bred. I picked it up when the nursery was closing. Don't know the name of it. Again, it is a blooming machine! It is the rose in the front of the picture. Sequoia is the yellow one in the back. BTW, the one on the trellis is Flamingo Dancer (another Moore rose, but I really credit Burling for it).

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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 9, 2018 10:45 PM CST
@Mustbnuts ...

Thanks for the beautiful photo. You should put it up as a landscape photo ... Smiling

I think you have 'Halo Rainbow', which is not in the NGA database.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

'Flamingo Dancer' was bred by Berling. Berling worked for Ralph Moore propagating his roses for the nursery and for wholesale.

@Rose_Guy1127 ...

Either 'Flamingo Dancer' or Moore's 'Shadow Dancer' would be smaller climbers and much easier to handle in your small space.

From your photo above, I think you are siting your climbers too close to each other.

In a sense, roses are like trees. The root mass mirrors the top growth. If you are planting a rose that has a lot of top growth like a climber, that rose is going to need the same amount of space for the root mass to have it perform well in your garden.

Would you plant two trees that close ?

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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