Roses forum: Alarming news-must read

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Salem, Oregon
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gar99010
Jul 11, 2018 2:52 PM CST
this was put on the Houzz website about Rose rosette Disease in CA. While I am not in California, and my state doesn't have it this is concerning and signs that it can be anywhere.

https://www.houzz.com/discussi...
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 11, 2018 3:46 PM CST
I am not surprised.

This was almost a given once they found RRD in the growing fields.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jul 11, 2018 5:19 PM CST
I was just praying . . . . Hoping it might stop there.

Now, my only hope is the fact that almost no one here grows roses. Within a mile of us, there are very few roses. But this sure puts an end to any sharing of cultivars.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 11, 2018 6:03 PM CST
Jeri ...

I think it depends a lot on how the winds flow, but I dont' know this for sure.

RRD was found in Trinity County at a higher elevation back in the 1940s. As far as I know, no one has had a problem with RRD here. I guess we are just not down wind of where RRD was found or there is a mountain, forest or some other obstruction that keeps the mites out of town.

The bigger problem from my point of view, is that going forward, if you buy a budded rose, you do not know if you are purchasing an infected plant and planting it in YOUR garden.

I think the own root plants distributed by the growers are grown in a different field, but there's no test for RRD. So who knows if you are getting a clean plant ?

I am glad I decided not to buy any more commercially produced roses.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Jul 12, 2018 12:41 AM CST
Two things:
1) I just learned something new today, and that is about RRD.
2) I am glad I am not closeby or in Bakersfield. I would be at frustrated knowing whether or not my roses might get infected.

@RoseBlush1: Could you help me gain a better understanding of commercially produced roses, please? I tried looking it up online, and I couldn't find any article helping me differentiate between a commercially produced and non-commercially produced roses.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jul 12, 2018 5:32 AM CST
I am not surprised it is in Bakersfield as Bakersfield is "downwind" from the growing fields in Wasco (known for its prison and roses--55% of all commercial roses in the US are grown there). It was found in Wasco some time ago due to infected stock being delivered there. I am hoping it does not go "upwind" from there and reach Burling's nursery. She has some rare varieties there that you cannot get elsewhere. She also helped to save some old varieties at Descanso and other public gardens.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 12, 2018 1:08 PM CST
Rose_Guy1127 said:@RoseBlush1: Could you help me gain a better understanding of commercially produced roses, please? I tried looking it up online, and I couldn't find any article helping me differentiate between a commercially produced and non-commercially produced roses.


Guy, I can't give you a complete answer. This is very much an over simplification. I haven't visited the growing fields, so I may be missing some info.

You have to think of rose production as an agricultural crop.

For budded roses, the rose farmer has to grow root stock in the fields. When a root stock rose is prepared for budding, the shank is de-eyed so that the scion, the little pieced of budding material, can be inserted to the the properly prepared shank, and when it takes, the new cultivar takes off with a root mass that has already been growing in the fields.

They leave the top growth of the root stock on the budded plant until the new cultivar is viable. I don't know how long that takes.

Then the root stock top growth is removed and only the budded cultivar is grown on for the market. The material that is cut off from the field grown root stock is not just thrown away as waste. It is used to propagate new root stock for crops in the following seasons.

RRD is systemic, which means once a rose is infected, every cell in the rose is infected. Some people try to save their roses by just cutting out the visible signs of RRD, but to my knowledge that method of control has not proved to be viable.

If a budded rose has been infected, that top growth of the root stock is also infected. Using that top growth to make cuttings to produce root stock for future seasons means that, it is very possible that infected root stock would be planted out in the fields and future rose crops will be budded to infected root stock. OOPS ! Again, as far as I know, I don't know if there has been a change in procedure since RRD was found in the growing fields.

Since there is no test for RRD, at this time, and symptoms can take a long time to be visable, it's hard to tell if you are purchasing a rose that was budded to clean root stock.

This is scanty information, so one would have to do more research to really understand the whole issue.

It's very possible they have changed industry practices since RRD was found in the growing fields.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jul 13, 2018 6:54 PM CST
*** It's very possible they have changed industry practices since RRD was found in the growing fields.

I wouldn't hold my breath.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 13, 2018 10:53 PM CST
No, I am not holding my breath ... nor am I buying roses ... Sighing!
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jul 14, 2018 10:16 AM CST
No, Lynn -- I'm not.

But at this point in time (and things will doubtless change) the most Not-Buy for us would be roses grown in the big commercial fields around Wasco/Bakersfield/Shafter . . .

I ALSO wanted to say -- It has been mentioned that RRD was found in CA in the 1940's. That is true -- but not as alarming as it sounds. That relatively minor infestation is way back in the mountains. I've never worried about that.

This -- This is quite a different kettle of fish. Sad
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 14, 2018 1:11 PM CST
Hi Jeri ...

Yes, I was referring to the roses grown in the growing fields as my Not-buy, too. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

I wrote to the scientist that posted that RRD had been found in California and told her I live in the county where it was found in the 1940s.

I told her that RRD was found at a higher elevation than where I live in Weaverville and that it has never spread throughout the County and that it was very unlikely that the RRD infection in the growing fields came from here and that it must have come from an outside source.

She confirmed that the RRD found in the growing fields did not come from California, but did come from two different "isolates" from outside sources.

She also asked for information about RRD being found in Trinity County because her sources of information only said that it had been found in the mountainous region of California and asked for any information I might have about it being found in TC.

I gave here the link to Ann Peck's web-book with a chapter on the history of RRD and the specific link in Ann's about the history. That information came from the May 2001 Heritage Rose Quarterly Rose Letter.

This link to Ann's book has been posted several times, but if someone new hasn't seen those posts, here is the link.

http://www.rosegeek.com/

Here is the link to RRD history in Ann's book.

http://www.rosegeek.com/id90.h...

Just a note: Anne's book was "published" in 2007. They have learned a LOT about RRD since then and they are still learning.

The scientist I communicated with said they are working to ID the source of infection of the Bakersfield rose. WOW ! I am very impressed. Even five years ago, they would not have been able to address the problem in that fashion.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jul 14, 2018 2:00 PM CST
Thanks for following that up Lynn ... I was a little hesitant to do so, but you had more-immediate knowledge.

I was, though, anxious that people NOT be led to think that RRD in settled areas of California is historic -- lest they take lightly something they should take deadly seriously.

Thumb of 2018-07-14/jerijen/a587d6

We KNOW that the Wasco debacle was caused by organisms from TAMU. (No. I'm not blaming TAMU -- but this is a good example of why we should not allow hubris to guide our actions.

I am VERY glad to know that they are going to trace the sources of the Bakersfield infestation.

I'm ASSUMING that Weeks/TAMU is one of the two sources, and anxious to know the source of the other.

Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 14, 2018 2:53 PM CST
Jeri ...

I love the cartoon ... I tip my hat to you.

I was surprised that she didn't know where in California RRD was found. Her post was very misleading in that respect.

We KNOW that the Wasco debacle was caused by organisms from TAMU. (No. I'm not blaming TAMU --

No sense in blaming TAMU. In my opinion, you don't plant research material in the growing fields. You plant it in a quarantined area far away from the growing fields.

I think I'll just ask her. The worst she can say is that she is not allowed to disclose that information ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jul 14, 2018 4:30 PM CST
"No sense in blaming TAMU. In my opinion, you don't plant research material in the growing fields. You plant it in a quarantined area far away from the growing fields."

*** Precisely.

And the reply to that MAY be that they didn't think of it as "research" material, but early propagation for sale. After all, when you get a new cultivar ready to release, it takes YEARS to build up numbers to make that viable. But if that's the case, MAN -- were they ever premature. With tragic results.

And, once it happened, to go ahead and sell things from that field just seems, well, reckless. OWELL. No use crying over spilt milk, but . . .

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