Daylilies forum: Plants that produce a repeated series of scapes

Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
Views: 1191, Replies: 33 » Jump to the end
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Jul 17, 2018 3:54 PM CST
High bud counts and elevated branching numbers are items I look for in daylilies. Is there a term for the number of scapes a plant sends up, some plants seem to send up a repeated series of scapes and some plants seem to send up a large number of scapes at one time, but I don't know how to search for those traits.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
Image
beckygardener
Jul 17, 2018 9:23 PM CST
Good question. I'd like to know, too.

Instant rebloom
Rebloom
Extended bloom

But what would be long bloom season?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Julie
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Region: Virginia Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Heucheras Cat Lover Hummingbirder
Clematis Lilies Birds Garden Art Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
floota
Jul 19, 2018 3:02 AM CST
Some of Karol Emmerichs intros will produce a new scape just after the first set of scapes has begun blooming. She calls this trait "instant rebloom." I've heard a few other hybridizers use that term but don't think it has been officially coined yet. You might look for that term. Others just use the word recurrent.

I will add: many of those who register their intros as rebloomers observe this in their own gardens. One thing the majority of them have in common is that they irrigate daily during bloom season. The top gardens I've observed in all parts of the country also irrigate daily, for at least 30 minutes to an hour during bloom formation and through the season. A daylily bloom is over 90% water. You can't give it too much water during growing season.

After living through years of drought and years of hose dragging, an irrigation system was the best garden investment Ive made, (along with a deer fence for those who have that problem). Daily sprinkling a few minutes just doesn't do it . From the moment I see scapes form until the time bloom is done, my beds get at least 45 minutes of water EVERY DAY that we don't get natural water. We've gotten almost no rain for the past month here in SW VA and I shudder to think of my water bill!! But, there is significant rebloom, good bloom color and blooms are the correct size and scapes are the correct or taller than registered. WIthout all that water, I would be seeing blooms diminish in size,lose color, buds would yellow and drop , and scapes would wither. Without water, rebloom mostly will STOP. Water is the single most important ingredient in achieving rebloom!! I have consistently seen this in the top gardens I've viewed for years. Just sayin'.
[Last edited by floota - Jul 19, 2018 3:17 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1766572 (3)
Name: Dave
Fairfax County VA (Zone 7b)
Image
daverme
Jul 19, 2018 5:07 AM CST
Julie, I DO appreciate that insight! You have confirmed what I have come to believe just from the experience of seeing my plants NOT live up to the hybridizers claims for them.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
Image
beckygardener
Jul 19, 2018 7:46 AM CST
I agree with you; Julie. This year we had a lot of rain and I saw a lot of rebloom. I don't water mine daily now, but am still seeing scapes. You are right though that yellow bud drop happens without the abundant water.

Thanks for your insight! Thank You!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
cybersix
Jul 19, 2018 8:41 AM CST
I ahve two italian registered cultivars that do this. The first blooming is still there and there are lots of small scapes growing. We had some rains, I am not watering a lot this year because every two days a rainstorm is here.
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallis.info
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
cybersix
Jul 20, 2018 2:44 AM CST
Here are my "instant rebloomers"


Weather conditions and watering are the same for all my plants, but these two are the only ones which sent a second series of scapes.
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallis.info
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Jul 20, 2018 3:35 AM CST
Rebloom means a plant blooms a first set of scapes, rests for a period of time after it has finished blooming, and then sends up another set of scapes.

Recurrent means that before the first set of scapes is finished, new scapes will appear. Because few people understand the term "recurrent", hybridizers have started using different terms such as "instant rebloom" or "continuous bloom".

Extended bloom has nothing to do with rebloom...that is a term that describes how a flower will partially open the day before and remain open for a longer period of time.

While many people blame the hybridizer when a plant fails to rebloom or perform the same in their garden it is, as Julie said, usually lack of appropriate watering that is causing the issue. Daylilies need a LOT of water to look their best and rebloom. Rebloom scapes often have a different scape height and bud count than the original scapes.
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
cybersix
Jul 20, 2018 4:25 AM CST
Davi, under the same condition I have only these two with this recurrent or continuous bloom. And just only one that reblooms after the first blooming has finished. So there must be (IMHO) something different in each daylily.
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallis.info
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Jul 20, 2018 6:19 AM CST
Is the term repeated rebloom appropriate to use for those plants that send up three or four series of rebloom scapes during a season or is there another term for it? Is there a term for those plants that seem to send up a noticeably higher number of scapes at the same time more than the average plant ?
Name: Julie
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Region: Virginia Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Heucheras Cat Lover Hummingbirder
Clematis Lilies Birds Garden Art Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
floota
Jul 20, 2018 9:22 AM CST
Sabrina,
You also should consider WHEN your plants first bloom and the longevity of bloom season where you live. Here in the mid-Atlantic USA, the bloom season is longer than say, WI or MN but much shorter than FL or TX. We're about average. We get some rebloom, but never will get as much as the Deep South. Even with the the BEST growing conditions, the length of ones bloom season may shorten rebloom.

So my peak bloom was around July 1. The earliest bloomers began blooming around the last week of May. The rebloom I'm seeing here now is from 1) those which are recurrent (rebloom instantly) and 2) those which bloomed extra early and early, and require a short rest period, before putting up more scapes. Some of the earliest bloomers here will have time to rebloom again in the late summer/fall.

At the same time, many ML-L and one VL just began blooming today or recently. If they are recurrent, they May bloom again instantly, but if they need a rest period, they might be sending scapes up around the time we get our first frost .( frost date here appr. Oct. 10) Those who live in the far northern states have very short blooming seasons. They might see LITTLE rebloom unless they can find cultivars some listed as recurrent. They can then try to give their plants good enough growing conditions that they will send up "instant rebloom " (recurrent) scapes.
I believe Mike Huben from MA has registered some recurrent bloomers for northern states.
This is why plants hybridized in southern US states might indeed rebloom for their hybridizers -maybe not so much that the plant is especially virtuous, but that the extremely long bloom season, coupled with ample water, encourages it! Then people who live far to the north will buy that plant expecting rebloom, and may never see it if they have a very short bloom season, even under optimum conditions.
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Jul 20, 2018 2:48 PM CST
Larry

I don't know if this is official, but I describe daylilies that have 3 sets of scapes as "strongly recurrent", others call them "continuous bloomers" because in order for that to happen, daylilies must start their new scapes before the first set finishes just to get the bloom in under normal climate conditions. Julie just did a good job of addressing that. To call it rebloom, you would need a rest period before each new set starts. So in general, the plant would not have time to rest between each set and still bloom 4 sets during the season, especially in the north unless by chance it were an extra early bloomer that bloomed till a killing frost. I have found that plants that bloom 3 scapes per fan really poop themselves out and need a lot of water and fertilizer...and I suspect they might be more susceptible to winterkill because so much energy has to go into producing multiple scapes and bloom. Add pods, and you really burden a plant so I would not consider trying for 4 scapes per fan as a desirable thing to do. The buying public is often not savvy enough to give that sort of performance the care that it needs IMHO.
Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Polymerous
Jul 20, 2018 3:30 PM CST
I would never grow daylilies again, if I had to water them 45 minutes a day from the first scape sighting! Blinking Seriously, we in the West can't do such things. I irrigate most of my garden (1 acre property, less than that is garden) twice a week, for about 15 minutes per sprinkled area (drip is different), and I still get nasty notices from the water company! And coming up in ? 2020, the water situation by law is going to be even worse. Crying

Even with such paltry watering, though, I can still get full sized blooms and rebloom on at least some cultivars. (Our clay soil and mulching may help.) I may not get 3 sets of scapes for most of these rebloomers, but I do get 2. For our conditions and under the circumstances, maybe these are high performing plants.
A 'Premonition of Spring' - PCI time already?!
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Jul 22, 2018 11:08 AM CST
I think every person needs to decide the level of care they can provide for their daylilies. I know several people who have given up growing daylilies entirely because they live under such stringent water restrictions that it takes too much money to keep plants watered using municipal water sources. Others have wells or pump out of available water sources such as lakes or ponds to get their water for free. But it was a mistake to hype daylilies as a carefree perennial IMHO because that led many people to believe that meant NO care. That is simply not true without great sacrifice to the plant itself resulting in poor performance. It is not the fault of the hybridizer if people do not give plants some water when there is no rain. Every living thing needs water. I'd like to see some of the complainers about plant performance not matching what the hybridizer sees in their gardens stand out in a hot field while the heat index is 104 for 30 days in a row and see how good they would look without a drink. Seriously??? It's been a tough year for both heat and drought. Blame the weather!

I'm seeing a lot of blame placed on hybridizers lately with hints that they may not be registering things right. That is so unfair. People must understand that hybridizers are subject to the same weather variations that you have. Registering a scape height of say 34" is an AVERAGE taken over quite a few years. In the hybridizers garden, it was also sometimes taller, sometimes shorter than that 34" so the registration information is not a guarantee that you will get that exact measurement. Same for bud count....really bad springs can cause lower bud counts. Hybridizers are giving you an average bud count. I keep detailed records over a 5 year period and average. I think most hybridizers try to give accurate registration information based on what they see in their gardens.
[Last edited by Davi - Jul 22, 2018 11:39 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1769265 (14)
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Jul 22, 2018 12:07 PM CST
Davi,
Thanks for the insight, I have been wondering how the scape height and the bud count were arrived at. I had been told that it should be an average, but it never even occurred to me that it was an average over a period of years. For some reason I was thinking an average of the scapes on a plant during the year of registration. It makes much more sense to take an average over a period of years.
I don't blame the hybridizer for poor performance of plants in my garden. I do wonder sometimes if the plants are coddled way more than any average gardener would do, and if many of the plants with their stats are grown under almost "unnatural conditions".
The main thing I would love to know when buying a plant would be if it was field grown, not grown in a pot, in a greenhouse, or under a shade cloth for it's entire life, and fed a constant stream of expensive fertilizer and water.
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
Image
needrain
Jul 22, 2018 12:24 PM CST
@Davi
That is a GREAT post. Not just for daylilies, but plants in general.

Living in an arid, hot, often windy climate where water is a scarce, expensive commodity and the vagaries of the weather are generally fractious, what you say applies to many, many plants. My expectations are never what is in the registration information. Those are seldom seen in the conditions here and it's unreasonable to expect it. The best I can do is try to mitigate the conditions and see if I can provide enough care to move the plant toward its optimum expression.

For that reason, I like the registered information to approximate what the plant is capable of in ideal conditions. Without that as a measure, it's difficult to tell how well I'm doing to provide the plant what it needs for optimum growth and performance.

Kudos for the post!
Donald
Name: Arlene
Florida's east coast (Zone 9a)
Tropicals Daylilies Bromeliad Region: Florida Enjoys or suffers hot summers Birds
Garden Photography
Image
florange
Jul 22, 2018 12:35 PM CST
Larry, if you are interested on how a plant is down by the seller, ask. Most will not mind sharing the information with you.

Because I largely purchase plants locally, I expect them to perform reasonably well in my garden. Some have been huge disappointments when they exhibit more dormancy than is appropriate here. Zero dormancy is appropriate in this garden. In the last ten years, we've had 30 degree temperature once--this January. Some other plants have been "fainting ladies" who just can't survive without .... name it--a certain fertilizer, daily watering, who knows what. Most of those plants are given away with my fingers crossed that they do better a little further north.

Down here in Central FL we are on constant water restrictions. We can water twice a week and we are on well water for landscape use. Luckily, we also receive a fairly large amount of rain. Some even comes when there aren't hurricanes. Right now we are under a severe thunderstorm warning that ends about 8 pm. Lots of wind and enough rain to make even a picky daylily happy. As a for instance (and not inferring it is picky), I have Lillian's Vapor Trail. She started blooming 4/27. I cut and counted buds on spent scapes 5/21, 6/8 and 6/24. As we speak, there are 4 new rebloom scapes up ensuring a good show for about another month.
[Last edited by florange - Jul 22, 2018 1:09 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1769340 (17)
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Jul 22, 2018 3:23 PM CST
I think it safe to say that most well known hybridizers water their plants more than the average gardener. If you don't water adequately, buds will drop off and seed pods will abort or not develop properly. I had to throw out many seeds that didn't develop properly during last years heat wave. When plants are stressed they can't "do it all" and will abort some of the things they can't support like buds and seed pods or the seeds within the pod. So watering is done, not to over inflate registration info, but to keep us in business! Stressed plants will also be reluctant to increase as well. So hybridizers should not be viewed as this sinister bunch of people who lie about plant performance....they are people just like you trying to do their best under some pretty wicked conditions sometimes.

[Last edited by Davi - Jul 22, 2018 3:28 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1769536 (18)
Name: Jill
Baltimore, MD (Zone 7b)
Daylilies Hellebores Cat Lover Region: Maryland Butterflies Bee Lover
Image
Jillz
Jul 22, 2018 3:58 PM CST
Oh @Davi! I feel bad if anyone has given you the impression that we think you are sinister for watering your beautiful plants. I've always viewed registration stats as aspirational if Mother Nature and I work well together (and often we are at odds). I assume that hybridizers have a better clue than I on how to get the best from their plants and work hard to do so. You rock!
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
Image
beckygardener
Jul 22, 2018 9:45 PM CST
I have to agree with Jill.

I just naturally assume that hybridizers have the knowledge of what to do under any given circumstance when it comes to their daylily gardens and the business end of providing healthy plants and/or seeds to their customers.

Whenever I make a comment on my daylilies, I always state that they are not grown as most hybridizers grow them. They have to be pretty tough to survive here under hostile conditions and pests. I garden organically as much as I can because my yard is a wildlife habitat. So I have to rely on the toughest daylilies to perform well. Most don't. Daylilies are definitely not carefree and easy to grow. Quite the contrary in my opinion. I always chuckle when I read a promotion at a big box store stating how easy they are to grow. Well, apparently not so easy afterall because no one (not even the small nurseries) sell daylily plants anymore in my area.

And I am the only one out of all the other gardeners I personally know locally, who actually grow daylilies. So what does that tell you? Ha! But I love a good challenge and I do love daylilies most of all the plants that I grow in my yard! Thumbs up
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Jul 22, 2018 9:47 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1769795 (20)

Page 1 of 2 • 1 2

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Daylilies forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Member Login:

Username:

Password:

[ Join now ]

Today's site banner is by ge1836 and is called "Large cup Narcissus"