Sempervivum forum→NGA Sempervivum DB - multiple name protocol

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Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
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AntMan01
Jul 17, 2018 6:04 PM CST
Hello all,

It's very useful that in the event of multiple names for the same Sempervivum cultivar or species, that information is captured and recorded in the individual plant records, particularly important regarding the existence of Trademark names in lieu of normal taxonomic syntax. Regarding the Chick Charms trademark names, most have been added to the plant records under a field called "Also sold as", and they do indeed come up in NGA Sempervivum DB searches, and cross-referenced if searching for the true cultivar names. There are still a couple corrections that need be made:

For the current 18 Chick Charm trademark named semps, two need fixing; namely CC Berry Bomb and CC Cosmic Candy. A third one named CC Silver Suede had the same problem, but was corrected by Lynn a couple weeks ago and now referenced under true cultivar name Sempervivum 'Neptune' Hurray!
Hen and Chicks (Sempervivum 'Neptune')

Here's how this double naming has been handled thus far, with the Chick Charm TM name added to a "Also sold as :" field, the example is with 'Killer' (one of our favs) and Chick Charms® Cranberry Cocktail.
Thumb of 2018-07-17/AntMan01/5bb4bf

For CC Berry Bomb & Cosmic Candy, the cultivar name is incorrect and non-existent, and the primary plant record is created based on that mistake. Here's Berry Bomb with annotation about the problem. Lynn (@vallylynn), can you make the same corrections to those two records. Maybe Chris (@SunSparkler) can supply the true cultivar name for those two if the ID is not known, so that the NGA Sempervivum DB can be made up-to-date and consistent with other entries.
Thumb of 2018-07-17/AntMan01/c886a0

Searching the NGA Sempervivum DB using keywords Chick Charms, one is missing, it is Chick Charm® Key Lime Kiss as an alternate name for the species Sempervivum globiferum ssp. allionii (published in 1879) Blinking . If searching the Jovibarba DB it does come up, but since that old species is now a Sempervivum, please add a search keyword to find it in the Semp DB.

Search results for Chick Charms in Sempervivum data, two that are outlined need fixing, and former Jov allionii needs indexing in Sempervivum.
Thumb of 2018-07-17/AntMan01/76ec6b

Thank you.


Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
[Last edited by AntMan01 - Jul 17, 2018 7:06 PM (+)]
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Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Jul 18, 2018 9:25 PM CST

Moderator

Mark, I don't have the original names for CC Berry Bomb & Cosmic Candy, and I am not certain if those two names are not correct, not a new name for a previous named semp. I have been trying to find that information.

@goldfinch4 do you know anything about these two Chick Charm semps?

If you do a search for Key Lime Kiss using the Plant Database search engine the correct entry comes up.
The two databases for Sempervivum and Jovibarba are separate and can not be cross referenced in a search, but you can search any of them for the general Plant Database.
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Seller of Garden Stuff I sent a postcard to Randy!
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goldfinch4
Jul 19, 2018 1:00 AM CST
No @valleylynn, sorry, I don't know anything about those two Chick Charms.
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Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Jul 19, 2018 10:48 AM CST

Moderator

@schrecka
Annie do you have this one in your inventory? If so can you tell us the what the name is on the back of the label?
Name: Annie Schreck
Fort Jones, CA (Zone 7b)
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schrecka
Jul 19, 2018 12:00 PM CST
I'm afraid not.
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Jul 19, 2018 6:48 PM CST

Moderator

Sad
Thank you Annie.
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
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AntMan01
Sep 5, 2018 5:26 PM CST
It seems a bit absurd buying Chick Charms from MCG, some examples:

Buy Chick Charms® Appletini™ from MCG for $4.95 (TM rebranded name for Semp 'Reinhardt')
or buy Sempervivum 'Reinhardt' from MCG for $3.95

I'd rather buy the original cultivar by Martin Haberer in 1979, save $1.00, certainly don't need to buy both, they are the same identical plant.
-
Buy Chick Charms® Mint Marvel™ from MCG for $4.95 (TM rebranded name for S. calcareum form)
or buy S. calcareum 'Mrs. Giuseppi' from MCG for $3.95,

'Mrs Giuseppi' is a named wild-collected form of calcareum from the 1930s, buy the original plant and save $1.00, and be spared the silly name redundancy and confusion this unfortunate trademark rebranding has created.

The MGC price for Chick Charms is just a dollar premium, many online sources are selling CC plants for $8.95 each, quite a bit more for plants readily available under their true cultivar names. Of the 18 CC plants thus far, just one is a new cultivar (Gold Nugget), all 17 of the others are rebranded older cultivars by other hybridizers.

I think it's unfortunate with MCG's Chick Charms online offerings there's no cross-referencing to the plant's true identity also available at MCG for a lesser cost. Correction: I've been alerted to the fact each CC plant on MCG web site does list the cross reference name under a field named "Other Names".

'Reinhardt'
https://mountaincrestgardens.c...
CC Appletini
https://mountaincrestgardens.c...

Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
[Last edited by AntMan01 - Sep 5, 2018 5:56 PM (+)]
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Name: Annie Schreck
Fort Jones, CA (Zone 7b)
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schrecka
Sep 5, 2018 5:31 PM CST
AntMan01 said:
I think it's unfortunate with MCG's Chick Charms online offerings there's no cross-referencing to the plant's true identity also available at MCG for a lesser cost. Some people buying from MCG might buy duplicate varieties unwittingly because of that omission.


Hi Mark. Just a heads up, you can find the true cultivar name for each Chick Charms product listed on its description under "Other Names". As a fellow semp lover, I really appreciate how much you care about proper nomenclature.
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
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AntMan01
Sep 5, 2018 5:52 PM CST
Thanks Annie, I missed spotting the "Other Names" field, it is indeed there for each CC on MCG web site. The other difference that's notable, it states about Chick Charms "Sempervivum and Jovibarba cultivars selected by Chris Hansen which is an accurate statement versus some web sites that plaster the word NEW on the Chick Charms without any other reference to realize they're in fact NOT NEW except for Gold Nugget.
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Sep 5, 2018 6:26 PM CST

Moderator

That is really nice how MCG did that Annie. Thank you for pointing that out. Thumbs up

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