Roses forum: August 2018 -- Photos and Chat

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Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Aug 19, 2018 8:54 AM CST
https://garden.org/ideas/view/...
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Aug 19, 2018 9:14 AM CST
Canadian_Rose said:Rose_Guy

I love your The Poet's Wife!! It's wonderful to see one stand up! I've had one (growing in a pot) for 3 years...it is still only 1 foot tall and the blooms face downwards. AND - it smells like stinky marigolds. How did you get yours to stand upright? What does yours smell like? Do you think it's a rose worth keeping?
Thanks!
Carol Thank You!


You're kind, thanks! Mine is only three months old, but it is a vigorous grower and very fragrant when compared to other roses so far. I wish I could break down the fragrance, but to me (being a novice rosarian), all roses smell like "a rose." I would say yes, but one must grow roses that they like.
I bought mine from the DA website, planted it in FoxForest Ocean soil. I added a handful of fish bone meal and alfalfa meal to the potting soil and sprinkled mycorrhizal fungi on the bare root. I then added mint compost as the top dressing. Once after the rose was well-established (in about a month-half), I started feeding it organic Alaskan fish fertilizer every three weeks.
[Last edited by Rose_Guy1127 - Aug 19, 2018 9:43 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1793470 (2)
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Aug 19, 2018 9:34 AM CST
RosesnTx said:Shyam I have been admiring your roses and The Poets Wife is especially beautiful and one I am considering growing in a pot as well. I have noticed you grow several David Austin roses, do you grow them all in pots? I think I'm going to start a separate thread on what DA roses do well in pots and I would love to hear your experience about what has and hasn't worked for you.


@RosesnTx
Hi Bonnie!
Thanks for the compliment. I am growing all my roses (for now) in pots for my house, like most houses in San Francisco, doesn't have a front yard but a small planter box. I do have a backyard that is undergoing renovation for rose planting season in January-February. In regards to DA roses in containers, I grow the following roses in containers:
1. The Poet's Wife
2. Claire Austin
3. Princess Alexandra of Kent
Other (non-DA) roses such as Ebb Tide, Mister Lincoln, Lexie, Gingerbread Man are in containers as well. So far they are thriving.

One invaluable advice (that was given to me early on by @RoseBlush1, @porkpal, @zuzu, and @jerijen) that I pass it on would be that pay attention to the height and width of the rose prior purchasing. The bottom growth should be able to support the top growth of the rose. Growing roses that are estimated to grow more than 4' won't fair well in pots. It won't because the roots will take up space in one growing season. I may probably have to re-pot my Claire Austin and the Poet's Wife next year during the dormancy season. Also, the rose characteristics mentioned for respective rose in the DA website is not applicable to the US weather/growing condition. Cross-compare the features mentioned on the DA website to that specified on the helpmefind.com website. Hope this helps.


[Last edited by Rose_Guy1127 - Aug 19, 2018 1:23 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1793484 (3)
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
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Canadian_Rose
Aug 19, 2018 5:52 PM CST
RosesnTx - sorry, but there's no way you can compare the length of time a rose should be in a pot, when I'm in zone 3...and you're in zone 8(?). Whistling For me...I don't have to change my pots soil (and trim roots) until about 7 years. You may have to do it in about 2? I've also started doing a new pot method. My husband has drilled large holes in the sides and bottom of 10 of my pots. Then he screened the holes. Jim showed me a link to this on a thread in Houzz. The purpose of these holes is so that the roots don't go round and round the pot without a chance to get nutrients from little feeder roots. So the roots, "feel" the air and won't grow towards the holes...so instead of circling the pot...the roots grow more intense feeder roots in the center of the pot. I used this method on my most pathetic growing roses (mostly Austins). They're started to get better...although I've also changed the "soil" I'll see how they go next year. Green Grin!

Thumb of 2018-08-19/Canadian_Rose/e683ee

Okay, here's a question. I lost my message, when I clicked on page 3...so I could refresh my memory on other questions. I got it back my using my browser back arrow. And then I copied my new message (this) and pasted it. Is there an easier way of doing this?

RoseBlush - the roses that had stinky soil at the bottom of the pots were brand new bare root roses, that didn't have the root structure to reach the bottom of the pot...so I was watering too much for what I had.

Margie, I especially love your Mohana and the last rose!! Lovely!!! Unfortunately now that I'm editing and adding, I can't use emojis anymore. Darn.

GaNinFl - your wife did a fabulous job photographing Gold Medal!! It's swoonworthy!!!

Rose_Guy - your The Poet's Wife puts mine to shame...I'm thinking of getting rid of mine.

Carol
[Last edited by Canadian_Rose - Aug 19, 2018 6:06 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1793912 (4)
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 19, 2018 7:23 PM CST
Carol ...

There are a lot of right ways to grow roses. Working with the "rule of thumbs", we have to tweak things to work in our climate and garden conditions. In other words, my cultural practices may be totally wrong for you, but the plant physiology remains the same.

- the roses that had stinky soil at the bottom of the pots were brand new bare root roses, that didn't have the root structure to reach the bottom of the pot...so I was watering too much for what I had.

I don't think the stinky soil had anything to do with the roots of a newly planted bare root rose. The soil at the base of the container would have become anaerobic whether or not the roots reached the base of the pot for one of many reasons.

It is totally impossible to over water a well drained rose. The rose takes up what it needs and the rest of the moisture drains away. This is true for roses in the ground or in a container.

Since I can't see or feel your soil or the conditions in your garden, I can't tell you the "why" of how you ended up with anaerobic soil. Going to a rule of thumb, it has more to do with drainage than over watering.

I don't know if you used the screening at the base of the pots that had problems, but that technique can mess up drainage in that silt fills the screen and even tho' you have a lot of drainage holes, your pot isn't draining as planned. Yeah ... I learned that lesson the hard way ... Smiling This can lead to anaerobic soils at the base of a pot.

The roots circling the base of a pot will also inhibit drainage and because extra moisture collects there and they are subject to root rot.

To build the solid root mass you have already recognized is needed, the method that seems to work best for roses is to pot them up gradually rather than to plant them in their large container immediately. The reason for this is that roses will grow their feeder roots laterally first, then those roots will go down the sides of the pots.

Growing them in the smaller pots first, allows the rose to fill in the middle of the root mass faster. In your shorter growing season, I know this is not what you want to hear.

One way you can do this is to plant your roses in smaller containers in early spring, let them grow roots throughout the season and then re-pot them into a larger pot in late fall. At that time of year, photosynthesis has slowed down, so root growth will also slow down, but studies have shown that the roses do continue to grow roots even when temps get down to -15F.

You would have to use your experience and judgment to determine if you were going to pot them up in their final pot in fall or wait until the following spring.

The purpose of these holes is so that the roots don't go round and round the pot without a chance to get nutrients from little feeder roots. So the roots, "feel" the air and won't grow towards the holes...so instead of circling the pot...the roots grow more intense feeder roots in the center of the pot.

I like the theory about the roots feeling the air, but I am not certain that's how it works. I've never tried it ... Smiling

The roots that go around the base of the pot are the anchor roots of a rose. They are differentiated from feeder roots and don't feed the rose at all. In nature, those roots anchor the plant and are programmed to pull moisture up to the plant from deeper levels of the soil. In a container, they don't serve that purpose and generally just inhibit drainage. The root pruning just removes the part of the root mass that is not serving the rose in a container.

Just my two cents. The biggest problem with long distance gardening is that you can't observe what's going on with a plant.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Bonnie
Texas
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RosesnTx
Aug 20, 2018 5:39 AM CST
Shyam, thanks for the advice, I will be paying attention to the estimated size of the rose.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias
hampartsum
Aug 20, 2018 9:07 AM CST
Hi ,
Some nurseries in the UK that are in need of progress with their potting schemes have adopted the air pot.I just found this is now available in the US:
https://air-pot.us/hydro/
There are references of it being used at Kew and also many shrub and tree nurseries. Roses are shrubs, but I'm not aware of the proportion of how much is traded as bare root/bands or potted.
Unfortunately, they haven't reached these shores yet. It's really worth studying, because it follows the implicit search criteria used by Carol husband @Canadian_Rose in drilling large holes and then netting so that the substrate stays inside and doesn't spill out from the large holes. The most important recent public recognition is that roots need AIR! ( apart from nutrients and water). Plastic pots ( and my bags) are air tight sideways. A century ago, pots were made of baked terracotta clay which allowed air to circulate. However, I still use bags for first my year arrivals because even that is better than planting the bare root straight into their planting hole.Of course this is site specific: my climate; when bare roots are available in mid winter (with my ground very cold and may be frozen on top or snow bound); greenhouse availability : I do have a cool greenhouse where to settle my arrivals until they develop a good top growth and are ready to go outside to spend potted the first season in a potted rose blooming "gheto" Smiling . Then I finally decide where I'm going to place them. This allows me enough time to wonder about colour scheme, growth shape, vigour etc. It also allows me to trial future siting (s), while the plant is in bloom looking how it blends with the rest.
From my above it's obvious that I consider potting a very valuable start up technique... Smiling Other's will have to test whether my pet theory hold true for their yard... Big Grin
Arturo
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Aug 20, 2018 9:29 PM CST

Moderator

Here are some roses that caught my eye today:

Awakening is a sport of New Dawn. It's a well-mannered hybrid wichurana climber with only half the size and half the thorns of New Dawn. I've planted it near my driveway, where it grows neatly on a pillar and never reaches out to stab anyone. I'd never trust New Dawn in this spot.



Demain is an old hybrid tea from the 1940s. It's neon-bright, starting out orange-red, then turning a bluish-red, and finally fading to a smoky pink. Sometimes all three colors are present on different petals of the same bloom.

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/74bd7a

Evelyn is a pretty Austin shrub with blooms that range from cream to apricot to pink and various combinations of those colors.

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/0679e8

Fiesta is one of Ping Lim's shrubs. It's one of the few roses in my garden that never gets black spot. It's supposed to be quite short, 2-3 feet tall, but mine's huge -- at least 6 feet tall and 5 feet wide.

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/378730

This one's a mystery rose, so I'd appreciate suggestions. I bought it from Roses Unlimited as September Song, but it obviously isn't. This wasn't a one-time fluke. For years, everyone who bought September Song from Roses Unlimited was sent this pink hybrid tea instead. It's clearly a hybrid tea -- tall canes with one bloom at the top of each, never any bloom clusters. It probably isn't even a Buck rose because his few hybrid teas aren't this color.

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/548d35

This one's Marie d'Orleans, a tea rose. I've had it for many years, but I'm not even sure I like it. It's exceptionally sloppy in its habit, with canes sprawling in all directions, and in its petal arrangement, which is more casual than most.

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/af93b7

This is the beautiful Peggy M, my favorite Jerabek rose.



Pure Poetry, a big floribunda, has been classing up my garden for 20 years.

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/1ecdaf

Three Weddings is another pretty climber that's growing on a pillar in my garden. It produces big clusters that resemble bouquets. The blooms are so pretty that they even look good as they reach shatter point (the two large blooms in the middle row).

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/20b8c0
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Aug 20, 2018 10:53 PM CST

Moderator

RU's still selling a pink rose as September Song:

https://rosesunlimitedsc.com/2...
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Aug 21, 2018 12:46 AM CST
Zuzu - I'll take a wild guess at the mystery rose - how about September Morn
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Aug 21, 2018 1:14 AM CST

Moderator

I don't think so, Margie, because HMF says September Morn blooms in small clusters, and mine never does. Also, mine has a distinctive arrangement of petals, almost like a dahlia or a camellia.

But there's actually more to my September Song story. Pictures like this one made me want September Song long ago.


So I actually bought it three times. The first time I bought it from Great Lakes Nursery when it was still in business. That rose looks like this:

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/778b36

I couldn't reorder it from Great Lakes because I'd bought it in their going-out-of-business sale, so I ordered it from Heirloom. That rose looks like this:

Thumb of 2018-08-21/zuzu/3a2fa8

I sent Heirloom a picture of the rose they had sent me, and I asked them to send me the real September Song. As usual, they ignored my request and never responded.

I then ordered it from Roses Unlimited and received the one pictured in my earlier post. All three nurseries sent me pink roses instead of the apricot-colored September Song.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 21, 2018 1:15 AM CST
Maybe 'Dakota Song'

https://www.helpmefind.com/ros...

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

I am just guessing, too ... Big Grin
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Aug 21, 2018 1:32 AM CST

Moderator

I don't think so, Lyn. Dakota Song also blooms in clusters, and even the pinkish pictures of it have some apricot shading visible, which never happens on my rose.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 21, 2018 1:38 AM CST
It was fun guessing ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Aug 21, 2018 2:30 AM CST

Moderator

Keep guessing, please.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Aug 21, 2018 6:23 AM CST
So far Zuzu's false September Song is the most attractive of the imposters, in my view.
Porkpal
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias
hampartsum
Aug 21, 2018 7:29 AM CST
Zuzu, I'm very grateful for your near fall assortment of rose blooms. Your selection is soooo beautiful... It sent me drooling... Drooling Fortunately ( budgetwise) I'm far away and with the exception of Evelyn that is recently arrived and is now leafing out, the rest are not known around here... Smiling Thank you! Thank You!
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Aug 21, 2018 8:50 AM CST
Zuzu - I'll take a wild guess at the mystery rose - how about September Morn
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...
[Last edited by MargieNY - Aug 21, 2018 3:52 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1796678 (18)
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
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Canadian_Rose
Aug 21, 2018 10:03 AM CST
RoseBlush - that's very interesting. Thumbs up I think the anaerobic-ness of the soil...was probably from poor drainage...I got my husband to drill holes in the pots...but they were small. Now the holes are a lot bigger. So I still think that I was watering too much for the size of the holes. And none of my older roses had this problem...so I intuited that the rose (being larger) needed more water than the new bare root roses could use. I never realized that about the reason for potting in smaller pots first. Hmmm...I'm hoping that the holes in the pots that we put in will take care of that problem. I'll experiment and see. You gave a lot of good ideas! Acorn

Zuzu - Lovely roses!!! I especially love your last 3 roses and Fiesta!!! That's terrible Angry that the rose distributor's missed the mark 3 times. And each rose is different from the other! Wow!

Today looks like there isn't much smoke outside. I'm going out soon, and I'll check...there is blue sky, finally!!

Carol

Carol
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 21, 2018 11:26 AM CST
@Canadian_Rose / Carol ...

No, you were not watering too much. If you have good drainage, that's impossible.

Think of it this way. If you were guzzling water and reached a point where you felt "full" and still had half a glass of water to drink, but could not take in even one more sip of water, you would set it aside.

It's the same with a rose. If it is fully hydrated, it cannot take in even one more molecule of water. It's done. The rest of the water just has to drain away.

They keep changing up potting soil mixes, so even if you are using the same brand that you used for your other roses, it may be a different mixture and drain differently.

Another thing you can do to facilitate drainage, if your containers are on hardscape, is lift them up just a little bit so that the excess water can drain out more easily. You don't need to use those expensive, fancy pot feet. Just something ... even a few well placed stones, that will lift the pot just a bit to make space between the bottom of the pot and the surface of the hardscape. That allows the extra water to drain out more easily.

Let us know about your experiment with the holes on the sides of your pots ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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