Roses forum→RRD and the new gardener - advice, resources, sources

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Northern MO (Zone 6a)
ac91z6
Aug 11, 2018 11:15 AM CST
For those of us who are new to growing roses, or are experienced but don't have all the roses they want (wait, that's almost all of us Rolling on the floor laughing ):

1. In light of the (awful) news about Weeks' growing fields, does anyone have any advice to minimize risks when buying new plants? Any advice on selecting sources? I hate to see us lose any more nurseries, especially because of stupendous idiocy on part of a wholesale grower. Sadly, it's probably going to happen.

2. Any options on own root vs grafted; which is more likely to show infection first (and thus can be culled before it hits the market or {more likely} caught in a gardener's own quarantine).
2a. How to quarantine any new purchases in your own garden - remember, the mites are wind-blown, they don't fly on their own.

3.Are there any cultivation practices that might 'force' an infected rose to show symptoms? I'm wondering if defoliating and taking just a bit off the tips of the canes might force new growth that would be more likely to show if a rose is infected.
3a. What can mimic some symptoms of RRD - herbicide damage can look like possible RRD, and sometimes roses just throw odd growth in response to the environment (lots of rain, cooler than usual temps, etc). Some roses are more likely to do this than others, but I can't remember what people have been saying (Bourbons, I think).

4. Any other advice, or resources, or links for new gardeners. Disposal tips for infected bushes, replant times, etc. Building or planting a windbreak, siting of roses.

Now, for what little I know:

On Gardenweb, Moses made a good point that a rose could have come from a 'clean' nursery and been infected by the diseased plantings in the chain store parking lot. As the mites are wind-blown, be aware of what's around the store/nursery you're buying from.

I've read some people spray an infected rose with hairspray to keep any mites on it from being disturbed during removal. Others put a garbage bag over the rose, dig it out, then just tie and toss.

Many roses naturally have red new growth - that in itself shouldn't make a gardener panic. There's no substitute for knowing what's normal for your roses and checking them regularly. Like when we're weeding and deadhead... oh, I can't even type it with a straight face Rolling on the floor laughing When we SHOULD be weeding and deadheading Whistling
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Aug 11, 2018 12:09 PM CST
Good questions!
Porkpal
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Aug 11, 2018 12:11 PM CST
These are questions for which we California gardeners have no answers. We've never needed to know these things. But we need to learn -- fast.
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020
MargieNY
Aug 11, 2018 3:38 PM CST
If I was to consider adding new roses to my garden, I would isolate them (2-3 yrs.) from the rest of my garden, in an area that formed a natural barrier such as dense evergreens or very tall grass.
I would also think about propagating (cuttings) some of my favorite roses that I have presently in my garden (duplicates) rather than purchasing new ones from various sources. I would plant the newly propagated roses in a different area than the original rose as a precaution. If one area becomes infected, hopefully the other area would be spared.
Vigilance is key.
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.
Northern MO (Zone 6a)
ac91z6
Aug 11, 2018 4:07 PM CST
My yard is too small, and if I'm honest, I'm too impatient and/or lazy to quarantine for years and dig twice for such an extensive quarantine. Being able to hold them that separate that long would be ideal though. I can manage a pot ghetto for a few months, but it's not pretty. I like the idea of back-up 'copies' of favorites in a different section, MargieNY.
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020
MargieNY
Aug 11, 2018 8:11 PM CST
Here are some suggestions to reduce the risk.
Destroy multiflora
Familiarize yourself with the symptoms.
Rogue @ the first signs of affected rose - it's systemic - remove ALL roots. Bag in place and discard.
When pruning, sterilize pruners when switching from one to rose to the next.
When planting, leave enough space between each rose. Perhaps plant a shrub in between each rose.
If considering horticultural oils and/or insecticidal soaps or miticides make sure to apply to the underside of leaves.
Another suggestion I read about stated that just after the 1st Spring flush, trim - mites and their eggs live in the new growth.
Barriers to impede movement of mites:
Heavily prune in late winter just prior to the new growth. You'll have a good chance of removing mites where they hide in the leaf axils.
Monitor your garden at least weekly.
Avoid using a leaf blower
Everyone must participate. By taking care of the problem spread can be avoided.
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
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AquaEyes
Aug 11, 2018 9:50 PM CST
As I posted "elsewhere"...........


Small producers will have smaller chances of infected plants going unnoticed and spreading infection to other plants. I'd recommend looking into the own-root specialist nurseries, so long as you aren't after the newest of the new roses grown on rootstock. I've gotten my roses this way, as bands in Spring, then growing them on in pots for the Summer before planting in late August through late September -- which works for my conditions. Keep the new potted roses away (as much as possible) from the rest of the garden, and keep an eye out for any suspicious growth. Space your roses widely, with companion plants between them. Continue keeping an eye out for RRD symptoms if you live in an area where it's already present, and be quick to act if you see it. If you live in such an area, accept that, over the years, you'll likely eventually get it in your garden, but by acting quickly and not cramming roses together, you can minimize chances of spread.

:-)

~Christopher
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020
MargieNY
Aug 11, 2018 10:21 PM CST
I agree Christopher. I would select own-root roses to reduce the possibility of introducing a virus through an infected understock and it would also prevent rootstock suckering.
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.
Name: Peggy
(Zone 5b)
PineapplePeg
Aug 19, 2018 12:03 PM CST
I bought 20 weeks roses awhile back. Almost all of them are own root. So far they look ok but are my chances lower of them having rrd because they are own root or is it higher because they are from weeks?
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
Image
AquaEyes
Aug 19, 2018 6:47 PM CST
Being own-root doesn't inherently offer any protection. It's more about the method of growing -- budded plants are field-grown for a year or two before being dug up and sold, while own-root is often grown in a greenhouse. In my head, it's about degree of exposure, not whether or not there is rootstock. Of course, neither is an absolute.

:-)

~Christopher
Name: Peggy
(Zone 5b)
PineapplePeg
Aug 19, 2018 8:41 PM CST
Thank you. I kinda understand now. I had planned on moving these in the spring but now I think I'm going to leave them right where they are. Just to be safe.In spring I'll have new space about 40ft x 4ft. So I'll have a nice fresh start. Tanks again.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
Image
Mustbnuts
Aug 23, 2018 5:01 AM CST
I just got through reading someone's master's thesis on RRD. They did a study where they infected roses with RRD to see who survived without getting it and who didn't. How do you like that for over simplification? The one rose that survived without getting RRD was the rose Stormy Weather. The study did not state which Stormy Weather it was (there are two roses named that). Of course, no one sells Stormy Weather that I could find! I wanted to try breeding it with other roses to see if that trait could be carried (not that I am willing to infect my yard with RRD), but who knows what might come from the seedlings that it produces.

OK, crawling back into my cave and continuing to read up on rose breeding, genetics (one of my favorite topics in school), etc.

On a totally off topic note--the news announced that Orchard Supply (my current favorite hardware store) is closing. There will be 4000 people without jobs here. Liquidating everything in the store. Wish I had the money to get the last of their patio furniture and their citrus trees for my "absolutely no more room" garden. I do need new toilet seats however so that will be worth it to go there and be sad along with everyone else. I love that store and their staff. I am usually in there a couple of times a week getting something from nuts, bolts, electricians tape, etc. Walking around their garden section has always been a delight since so many of the nurseries have closed here. Sighing!

Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020
MargieNY
Aug 23, 2018 7:01 AM CST
Mustbnuts said:I just got through reading someone's master's thesis on RRD. They did a study where they infected roses with RRD to see who survived without getting it and who didn't. How do you like that for over simplification? The one rose that survived without getting RRD was the rose Stormy Weather. The study did not state which Stormy Weather it was (there are two roses named that). Of course, no one sells Stormy Weather that I could find!



Roses Unlimited:

https://rosesunlimitedsc.com/2...
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.
Name: Carol H. Sandt
Lancaster County, Pennsylvania (Zone 6b)
Peonies Region: Pennsylvania Growing under artificial light Foliage Fan Bookworm Annuals
Roses Hostas Xeriscape Daylilies Aroids Region: Mid-Atlantic
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csandt
Aug 23, 2018 7:53 AM CST
Mustbnuts said:I just got through reading someone's master's thesis on RRD. They did a study where they infected roses with RRD to see who survived without getting it and who didn't.


Was there any information in the thesis on the timing between inoculation and development of symptoms?
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
Image
Mustbnuts
Aug 23, 2018 8:31 AM CST
Thank you Margie! Yes! However, I am not sure it is the climber Stormy Weather or the mini Stormy Weather. I am going to see if I can find out. Thank you again.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
Image
Mustbnuts
Aug 23, 2018 9:04 AM CST
Yes, but they "forced" (my terms) the inoculation (my terms). Since it basically was a science experiment, the conditions were done in the lab and not reflective of what would be in one's garden. I am hoping this link works as it is to his thesis http://scholarworks.uark.edu/e... The author's name is Patrick Louis Di Bello and he did his thesis at University of Arkansas. Just that info alone on a web search should get you to his paper. It is only about 70 pages long and interesting reading.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
Image
Mustbnuts
Aug 23, 2018 9:49 AM CST
Well, in rereading the thesis, they got their plant material from Weeks and from Greenheart Farms. Weeks does carry the climber Stormy Weather. Thank you again Margie! You are amazing!
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020
MargieNY
Aug 23, 2018 9:55 AM CST
It's the climber - I have read several references to it in various places. here's one:
https://www.houzz.com/discussi...
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020
MargieNY
Aug 23, 2018 11:00 AM CST
http://scholarworks.uark.edu/c...
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Aug 23, 2018 11:20 AM CST
If the plants came from Weeks, perhaps they were already infected.
Porkpal

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