Roses forum: Least-risky options to order roses for 2019

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Northern MO (Zone 6a)
ac91z6
Aug 18, 2018 12:31 PM CST
With the horrible news coming from Weeks', if you are going to order roses for next year how are you choosing the vendor? I wouldn't chance any cultivar Weeks' introduced in the last couple years, and I definitely wouldn't get anything grafted that originated from them (they've got growing fields in other parts of the country, but if they mismanaged one field that badly I don't trust the others).

Does anyone have any advice or know some good options?
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Aug 18, 2018 1:30 PM CST
It's really going to depend upon what sorts of roses you are looking for. At this point, the "specialty" nurseries are probably unaffected.
Name: Bonnie
Texas
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RosesnTx
Aug 18, 2018 1:32 PM CST
Thank you for starting this thread, I am curious as well as to the answers. I had planned on ordering from David Austin and I'm not sure if they ar now safe to order from and would any info so I can make a knowledgeable decision.
Northern MO (Zone 6a)
ac91z6
Aug 18, 2018 2:19 PM CST
Jeri, by 'specialty' do you mean OGRs and Fortuniana-grafted, or would you include own-root nurseries?

I do have a few OGRs I'd like to get (I don't have a lot of space at this house, so once-bloomers are mostly off the table), but being in the northern part of z6 most of my 'wants' are newer introductions for cold-hardiness and rebloom. And, I'm still trying to find a few more for my Halloween themed bed. I really need to post some pics of it one of these days. Unfortunately 'Bishop's Castle', one I still want, is only available from Heirloom (ridiculously $$$), Regan's (they also carry a lot of Weeks', is it worth the risk?), and K&M (on Fortuniana and I'm in z6).

RosesnTx, I want to say I read that DA has their growing fields in Texas but I couldn't tell you where I read that. I know there are some own-root nurseries that offer some DA roses, depending on what you're looking for.
[Last edited by ac91z6 - Aug 18, 2018 2:21 PM (+)]
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Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Aug 18, 2018 3:49 PM CST
I guess I mostly meant own-root -- but I think smaller nurseries that bud are likely safe, don't you? I mean, if anything is.

If it were me, I'd avoid Regans ... because they have to be working with budwood from Weeks, don't they? It not plants?

Northern MO (Zone 6a)
ac91z6
Aug 19, 2018 9:20 AM CST
That's what I'm thinking Jeri. I think I'm still going to call and ask how they handle their own-root roses- if they come from separate fields/vendors than those who do the grafted ones, I'll still consider it (I don't think any of their own roots were Weeks, but I'll double check). If they get own-roots from another vendor wholesale I think I'll try to contact that nursery before I make a final decision.

We've lost so many nurseries I hate for us to loose more thanks to Weeks' idiocy, and this has me worried about Regans and Edmunds. I wouldn't take the risk with a grafted variety (WAY to much chance of Weeks' budwood/plants in those fields), but if their own-roots aren't at risk from this fiasco I'll think about it. I can't order for a few months anyway, so plenty of time to think it over and see what else develops from this.

Or I could just wait for a decent Heirloom sale and hope they've got 'Bishop's Castle' in stock, or take the chance with Fortuniana in z6 (I bury grafts anyway) and order from K&M for spring. Watch poor BC be an underachiever in my yard, after all my worrying to get him! Rolling on the floor laughing
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 19, 2018 1:39 PM CST
ac91z6 ...

Thank you for this post.

As Jeri posted in another thread, all of the big rose distributors have growing fields in the Waco area. I think you might want to add Star Roses and Jackson and Perkins to your list of growers / distributors to your "be cautious" list.

I know I would avoid Regans and Edmunds.

Your idea about calling to find out where a vendor got their budwood is a good one.

During my rose life, I have always waited a few years after a rose was introduced to give it the test of time and to wait to read comments about the rose from people who purchased it when it first came out. I was trying to avoid purchasing plants that would not do well in my climate and to avoid wimpy plants. I figured, if they were good roses, they would be around and I could buy them after other people did the testing ... Smiling

You may decide to wait a bit before adding the newest roses introduced for now as budwood is being passed around by the big guys.

One nursery that I know that may be a good one for you located in MN, specializes in plants, including roses, that are grown in cold zone climate conditions is Sam Kedem Nursery and Garden. You may not find the newest roses there, but you can count on the roses he sells to be cold hardy.

There are also several DA roses on the inventory list as well as roses bred by Griffith Buck and Ping Lim.

The Weeks roses I saw on the list were introduced prior to 2011 when RRD was found in the rose fields.

He also carries some roses bred by Christian B├ędard who was being groomed to be the head of the hybridizing program at Weeks before the company went bankrupt.

Following where one of his roses came from on Sam's inventory list .. 'Botanika', I found it was introduced by Quebec Multiplants.

http://www.quebecmultiplants.c...

I don't know anything about the company, but I have heard a rumor that Christian went to work for a company in Canada. They have a long list of roses, but I don't speak French and don't know if they are growing plugs to be distributed to other companies through wholesale or what ... Smiling

There are a couple of ways you can find nurseries that are listed for cold zones by location on HMF. You can also find out if any rose you are interested in is grown in colder zones by checking the garden listing. True, a lot of people won't give their specific location, but if you find the rose growing in states known to have cold climates, it's a good indication about whether or not the rose can be grown in that kind of climate.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Northern MO (Zone 6a)
ac91z6
Aug 19, 2018 6:43 PM CST
Kedem Gardens! I did get a few from them this year, but I ended up losing one with our awful weather. I couldn't put anything in the ground for the longest time and then I was out sick our one week of nice weather before the awful heat set in. One of the Austins I got from them (which are grafted, BTW to anyone reading who didn't know) is still in a pot because it got what I thought was canker on the new stems. I've left it and *surprise* those stems are still throwing new growth, black spots at the base be darned! I don't know whether to plant the darn thing and take my chances with Huey suckers or what. And now I'm off topic...

"Celestial Night" I mostly wanted to fill out my Halloween bed so I could call it done. Rolling on the floor laughing At least I haven't ordered the rose it was supposed to balance, so I can always change plans. If it is (was?) a good rose, I hope it's still in commerce after this debacle.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 19, 2018 7:32 PM CST
@ac91z6 ...

If the root stock was properly prepared for budding, you probably will not have to worry about suckering. To prepare root stock for budding, the shank is de-eyed so that no new roots are generated from that part of the root stock.

The dark spots may or many not have been canker. Budded roses are harvested from the fields by machines. So you may have been seeing wounds due to mechanical damage.

It's a good thing roses sure are survivors ... Sticking tongue out

I'd go ahead and plant it ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Kris Legault
Southern Oregon (Zone 8a)
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Kristinelego
Aug 20, 2018 7:38 AM CST
@Ac91z6, your Halloween garden sounds intriguing. What do you have planted there?
You can't plant your new favorite rose if you are still watering your least favorite
Name: Shyam
San Francisco, CA (Zone 10b)
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Rose_Guy1127
Aug 20, 2018 1:23 PM CST
So, I contacted Regan's Nursery this morning and they said they didn't seem to experience any issues in regards to RRD. When asked if they still get the budwood from the Weeks, and would it be safe to order roses for next year, I was requested to get in touch with the Weeks for better information. I contacted Weeks and the representative wasn't able to assist me for "the person who is better suited to answer my questions is not present in the office today, and I could call tomorrow." I further pressed if they could let me know when and what time will that person be available, and the response was "no idea." I should get to the bottom of this because I already ordered about 15 roses from Regan Nursery for planting season next year.
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
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Canadian_Rose
Aug 21, 2018 10:48 AM CST
This is such a horrible thing to have happened. The whole rose industry is bound to go under, and we'll never get new roses, unless we can order from Europe. Not likely.

I didn't know that Bedard came back to Canada. Wonder where?
Carol
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Aug 21, 2018 1:10 PM CST
At some point, when it becomes general knowledge that the growing fields are (and have been) infected, the growers who are completely detached from the sources of RRD are likely to begin advertising/explaining their independence as it will certainly help their business. Won't they?
Porkpal
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Aug 21, 2018 1:56 PM CST
Well, EYE sure would!
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Aug 21, 2018 1:59 PM CST
Rose Guy -- Consider that the incubation period is up to 3-4 years. YEARS.

Roses from Reagans, planted this spring or summer, have YEARS to go before you know if they are infected.
Northern MO (Zone 6a)
ac91z6
Aug 22, 2018 5:18 PM CST
@Roseblush1 the key words are "properly prepared" Rolling on the floor laughing There's a Mr. Lincoln at my parents' house that is throwing suckers (we've beaten them back for the time being) that I'm sure came from some commercial grower. It was from a garden center, not a nursery, so maybe DA has a contract with someone who does a better job Hilarious! If I can dig a deep enough hole in that spot, I'll probably go ahead and plant it at this point - I think it's earned a chance at life!

@Kristinelego let me think... There's not much to see now, but I should post a pic - give an idea of the space and spacing I'm using. If I get ambitious I'll try to play with MS Paint and show the color scheme. I've got Dame de Couer/Queen of Hearts and Black Magic, Pink Enchantment and Bliss/Fairytale Magic, Golden Fairytale and Caramella Fairytale, Twilight Zone, and yet to be planted are Midnight Blue, All-American Magic, Enchanted Evening and Daring Spirit or Hypnotized - one croaked and my labels somehow came off the roses. I'm still waiting for a decent bloom to make a guess at which one I have - this weather and the bugs have beaten me to the last two Grumbling

I'm still looking for Pumpkin Patch, and hoping Northland will have Full Moon Rising next year to add to it. I'd like to add a Sugar Moon, Dark Desire, and Moondance as well - trying to have two of each color/shade so the bed will be balanced around (hopefully) Full Moon Rising.

That's the plan anyway, we'll see how it works out. I've still got quite a few to put in, and then there's companion plants - fall bloomers, things with names that will fit the Halloween theme (ex. Veronica "Pink Potion" and "White Wands", which I need to hurry up and plant *Blush* ).

Now that I've derailed my own thread... I'm thinking ordering from colder-zone nurseries might (eventually) be the way to go. I don't see a rose with RRD infection surviving 3 years in a real z6 or colder. That doesn't help anybody in a zone warmer than 6 or 7 though. The question for the next few years, however, is going to be which nurseries are lowest risk - who hasn't gotten plant material from Weeks in the last 4 years would be as safe as possible, I'd say.

But who is that? We've got some specialty/own root nurseries that I'd expect would be safe. I think @porkpal and @jerijen are right, and we'll start seeing nurseries advertise their risk status. I don't know if I'd trust them all (looking at one big one in particular who has posted on the other site in threads about this Glare ) but I think there are several I would trust to be honest about whether or not they got possibly infected material.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 22, 2018 6:10 PM CST
@ac91z6


the key words are "properly prepared" Rolling on the floor laughing There's a Mr. Lincoln at my parents' house that is throwing suckers (we've beaten them back for the time being) that I'm sure came from some commercial grower. It was from a garden center, not a nursery, so maybe DA has a contract with someone who does a better job Hilarious! If I can dig a deep enough hole in that spot, I'll probably go ahead and plant it at this point - I think it's earned a chance at life!

Is this a new rose ?

The way to remove suckers so that there is less chance of them coming back is to dig down to where the sucker is emerging from the rootstock. Then RIP the sucker off. Do not cut it off. When you cut off a sucker, you are leaving behind a whole lot of bud eyes which will generate new suckers.

If you rip the sucker out of the rootstock, more often than not, you can get all of those bud eyes out along with the sucker.

Good luck .... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Kris Legault
Southern Oregon (Zone 8a)
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Kristinelego
Aug 22, 2018 10:27 PM CST
ac91z6, your Halloween garden is such a fun concept. It sounds like there are so many roses that will fit right in
How about Voodo ? Rolling on the floor laughing
You can't plant your new favorite rose if you are still watering your least favorite
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Aug 23, 2018 4:21 AM CST
Bishop's Castle is available on own root from Northland Rosarium in eastern Washington. I have purchased roses from them before and find their prices to be much lower than Heirloom and much better roses. They have great customer service. All of their roses are own root but I cannot tell you if where they get their roses from that they start to propagate for sale. I know they were closed due to smoke from the fires, so I would call or email them to see if they are back open again. They are a beautiful nursery.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Aug 23, 2018 4:32 AM CST
Just checked and it looks like Northland is open again (yes!). You may also want to look at their Ole rose (bred by Kathy Zusek). Pretty little thing and should do well in your area. It can take the cold!

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