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Avatar for Kesroses
Aug 25, 2018 4:52 PM CST
Thread OP
East TN (Zone 7a)
It might be a bad time to start this conversation given that adding or moving roses is a concern, but maybe it's important to do it now before they are gone. In your estimation, what roses that you grow, have grown, or are being grown in your neighborhood or community are in danger of disappearing? Are they now in commerce? What makes them special? Where are they likely to grow well? Even relatively modern roses can be in danger of being lost due to marketing practices or lack thereof.

Here are some of mine:

1. Ohio red rambler- This is my cautionary tale. It's probably a generation or so too late to save it. When I was growing up in northeastern Ohio, nearly every farmhouse had a once-blooming red rambler growing on the front porch. They usually started blooming in June and bloomed for about a month. They were covered with nickle-sized, double red roses that grew in clusters. I loved that one snip could give a whole bouquet perfect for a child's hand. The most remarkable thing about this rose was that during a severe winter they'd die back, sometimes all the way to the ground, yet recover enough to come back and bloom every year. In the early 1990's we moved back to NE Ohio briefly. The rose had disappeared from the farm where I grew up. Many of the farm houses were deserted or gone entirely and so was this rose. None of the roses that I've seen offered are a match.

2. Charles Walker's Mignonette- This is a little white polyantha that came from Vintage. The rose blooms in clusters of tiny pompoms that blush pink in cool weather. It's sweetly fragrant but the fragrance doesn't waft the way it can with Marie Pavie. This rose has gone through bad winters, trauma (bird feeder fell on it twice) and being munched on by deer. It blooms its little heart out. Last I saw, this rose was offered only by Long Ago Roses and I don't think she ships to the West Coast.

3. Mechanicsville Beauty-This is the name I gave it, I don't know what the original name is. DH found it about 20 years ago in a vacant lot where an old church had been bulldozed and brought it home to give to me. The poor rose was trying to come back from a piece of root that was left in the ground. I almost lost it last winter/spring but moved it to the China/pink bed where it seems to be happy and is reviving. Never a large rose, it has slender canes, a little on the twiggy and thorny side. It doesn't like severe winters. The blossoms are double, medium pink with a slightly darker reverse, slightly cupped and a nice fragrance. They are single or in small clusters of two or three. I always thought of it as a shy bloomer but since I moved it to the China bed, I need to check it regularly to remove the buds till it gets some size. Pink roses are a dime a dozen. I can't imagine who would want this rose but if I lose it, it's gone.
Avatar for porkpal
Aug 25, 2018 6:24 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
I don't think I have any endangered roses, but I believe this is a very important topic.
Aug 25, 2018 6:49 PM CST
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
In my garden?
"Jesse Hildreth"
"Setzer Noisette"

'Carolyn Supinger'
'Mel's Heritage'

'White Surprise' (I don't think ANYone sells this!)

"Old Town Novato"
"Benny Lopez"

There are others, I'm sure.
Aug 25, 2018 8:19 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Kes, this is a great idea and thank you for posting it ... I tip my hat to you.

I had been thinking along those lines myself, but right now, I couldn't guarantee that any budwood sent from my garden is clean. I bought four roses down in the Valley in 2016. Two were Weeks roses. I won't know for a couple more years if they are clean. I may have brought RRD to my own garden and to town .... Sighing!

RRD was found in Trinity County in the back country 80 years ago. It has never made it to town, so I never worried about it. The small nursery up here and the garden center at the hardware store has been selling Weeks roses for the last couple of year and a lot of people buy their roses down in the Valley like I did.

I think I've talked the manager of the garden center out of ordering more roses for next season and now I have to talk to the owner of the nursery, but we may already have RRD in town now.

I can no longer promise that anything in my garden is clean ... Sighing!
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Avatar for bart2018
Aug 26, 2018 3:46 AM CST
Tuscany, Italy
Kordes' "Karlsruhe" immediately comes to my mind. As far as I can see, by now, in Europe ,only Peter Beales still carries it, which is truly a shame. "Laguna" is NOT a valid substitute; the colour is totally different,being quite reddish, whilst Karlsruhe is a true deep rose pink. I am glad I bought 3 of them from Peter Beales; they are all still small but hopefully some day I can take cuttings and try to give them to people.
Aug 26, 2018 6:09 AM CST
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
In my garden, the following are no longer available from US nurseries:

'Georg Arends'

"Nouveau Monde -- in commerce as" (all the HMF pics are of my plant)

'Rose du Roi' -- the true Damask Perpetual, not the Hybrid Perpetual imposter

'Souvenir de Victor Landeau'

A few others I have are offered by only one or two US nurseries, but I'll have to come back to this thread with those after I go through my inventory after work today.


Avatar for Kesroses
Aug 26, 2018 7:53 AM CST
Thread OP
East TN (Zone 7a)
Porkpal, thanks for your reply. The first and most important step in preservation is to think that some things are worth saving.

Jeri, thanks for replying.I'll bet you have more than that but it's a very good start. You've accomplished something with most of these that is worth noting. How on earth did you get nurseries to pick them up as inventory? You've accomplished something that I would like to see with every rose that's in danger of being lost. You have both eastern and western nursery sources for most of these roses. 'Carolyn Supinger' is an exception, of course. It's a perfect example of a modern rose that is rare. Is your 'White Surprise' the Lens rose?

Lyn, this is a very worrisome time. You've done whatever you can and more than most to prevent RRV in your garden and community. I think that very few of us could guarantee that all our roses are RRV free today, given what we've heard recently. I have lost 5 +/- roses in the last 4 years to RRV and was able to save several that showed early signs of it by early and drastic removal of that cane and isolation. I inspect daily. What we need is a field test for RRV that anyone can use and with reasonably quick results. In the meantime we can develop a data base of our rare roses; what's out there, where it is, where it is likely to be successful, etc. Consider this a roll call of a sort.

Bart, thanks for sharing your interest and experience with 'Karlsruhe' (Kordes). Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but I had to look it up on HMF. I'm glad I did, it's lovely! It amazes me that this rose has so many nurseries listed where it's available, both mail order and walk-in, and it is now down to only one source for you. I hope you will continue to let us know how it performs for you.
Aug 26, 2018 9:01 AM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Kes ...

It's all roses that are endangered. I grow many roses that are no longer in commerce.

I'm still uncomfortable about sending out budwood to anyone because I think mankind is the second largest vector of RRD.

If that test you mention were available and I could be sure I was sending clean budwood. I'd be willing to strip my garden to provide budwood.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Avatar for Alana8aSC
Aug 26, 2018 9:52 AM CST

I have some that are not available anywhere either. And some that are only available at one place. I'm the one who shared Charles Walker Mignonette with Linda of Longagoroses, so that it could be available to some people. It is one of my favorite polyantha's.
Avatar for fisherwoman
Aug 26, 2018 10:53 AM CST

No one around here has any idea when I talk about them what an Old Garden rose is. Either did I twenty years ago, but I sure see a sharp decline in availability . My nearest nursery that carried a huge inventory of all kinds of roses including David Austins , as of this year no longer sells roses at all.
It's a little fearsome soon I may have to move into a retirement apartment that has no flower beds, just concrete sidewalk.
Last month I began selling my rose bushes on Craigslist and am dispersing them across Washington state to three locations so far, and can only hope my healthy roses will stay that way and reproduce.
I can't imagine a world without roses.
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Avatar for hampartsum
Aug 26, 2018 11:05 AM CST
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche,Rio Negro, Argentina (Zone 8a)
Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Roses
Kes, you are addressing a most important issue worldwide. Actually its not only preserving each rare or not easily found rose in commerce, but also its genetic makeup. This makes it even more difficult to understand that even those less popular roses or less marketed ones early on the world rose journey OUGHT to be preserved. Sometimes these less "valuables" happen to contain chains of recessive genes that will show up eventually as success roses once their breeding value is recognized. Otherwise we reduce the genetic diversity and only by chance mutation could we ever recover that lost diversity. So any named rose and also those cataloged as breeding stock in a place like HMF are really worth keeping. Always there's a small corner in someone's generous garden to store a few bushes, who will become hidden treasures for the future. The question really is keeping the rose growers network active. I think both this forum and HMF are excellent tools to achieve that goal. I'm watching and bookmarking this thread!. It's one of my key concerns! Thank you for posting it. Thank You!
Aug 26, 2018 11:22 AM CST
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
Kes. Yes. 'White Surprise' is the Lens rose -- which if allowed to will grow to massive proportions in a mild climate.

We have had to cut away at it, in order to hack a pathway beyond it. Otherwise it would be more covered with bloom.
We plan to move it come spring, to a location where it will screen out the ability of some intrusive neighbors to watch what we do in our yard. It is also a magnificent burglar deterrent.

Some things are in commerce because we first shared them with the Historic Rose Garden in the old Sacramento City Cemetery.

But some things, like 'Carolyn Supinger' -- I have not yet gotten a nursery to take on -- but I will keep trying:
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Avatar for Kesroses
Aug 26, 2018 12:17 PM CST
Thread OP
East TN (Zone 7a)
Christopher, thanks. I know you have a few that are rare. Had it not been for your sharing photos and your own experience with them, I'd never have heard of them, let alone think of them as a possible choice for my own garden. You bring up a good point about having a single nursery as a source. Nurseries close, inventory can be lost through catastrophic events, and roses can be dropped from inventory for a variety of reasons. Better to have several nurseries carry it, especially those on opposite sides of the country. In the end, though, the goal is to get them into gardens, both private and public. It's the best way to preserve roses, I think.
Avatar for porkpal
Aug 26, 2018 12:26 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Planting in cemeteries for safe keeping as Christopher is doing is also wise.
Avatar for Kesroses
Aug 26, 2018 5:00 PM CST
Thread OP
East TN (Zone 7a)
Lyn, you're so right about all roses being in jeopardy. Any thinking person who reads this should be concerned. I don't know how far away we are from a RRV field test but we all need it or something like it. In the meantime we'll have to be content to figure out what's out there and where it is.

Alana, I knew you had Charles Walker Mignonette, too but was unaware that you were the one who sent it to Linda at Long Ago roses. I'm so glad you did. This is a great rose for the Appalachian South, among other places.

Arturo, I agree with you. We are in the early stage of understanding genetic combinations and how they work. If we can hold on to these roses before they disappear, they may be valuable to us someday in ways we'd never have predicted.

Fisherwoman, I think this is a concern we all share. I don't have any brilliant ideas or words of wisdom. I wish I did.

Jeri, I like Lens roses. I have Heavenly Pink and I'm surprised at how healthy and versatile it is despite getting the barest minimum of care. Surely roses like White Surprise could be used as a barrier instead of trees and shrubbery that will later outgrow their space. I don't know why Lens roses aren't more popular here.

I wonder about how eager cities will be to welcome roses with RRV on their radar now.

i love 'Carolyn Supinger'. I think it's stunning and can't believe it's a mini. Maybe someday it will make its way to my garden. Well, I can dream...
Aug 27, 2018 5:11 AM CST
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
I have Wedding Cake (Moore), Emily (DA) and unknown mini from Ralph Moore. I think the unknown mini was probably used as breeding stock. It sure makes a lot of hips. I used to have another DA rose you can't get here any longer, Peach Blossom. I really liked that rose. First and last to bloom in my garden and can take heat. No disease. Had to get rid of it when others reverted back to rootstock and some tree/bush on the back side of my fence, from the greenbelt area, started growing inside my rose bush. Try as I may, I was never able to get rid of the thing other than tearing the whole rosebush. Should have tried to grow it on its own root, but I never did, unfortunately. Peach Blossom made hips like crazy as well.
Peach Blossom

Wedding Cake (I have three of them on their own root)

Unknown Moore mini
Thumb of 2018-08-27/Mustbnuts/42c524

I had another rose, a climber, from Ralph Moore's nursery that was sold to me when the nursery closed. I have no idea what it is anymore. Had to get rid of it during the big reversion back to Dr. Huey in that bed. I don't believe, however that that particular rose was on Dr. Huey, but unfortunately, the Doctor was popping up everywhere. If I recall, it was a once bloomer. I remember the nursery stating it would get up to 14 feet tall. I certainly had room for it on my arch. That arch is huge.
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Aug 27, 2018 5:19 AM CST
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
I forgot to add pictures of Emily

I also have Candice. No longer available in the US but is available in South Africa. Very easy to grow on its own root. I love how she changes color depending on the time of year and the temp. She is always in bloom and can take the heat.

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Aug 27, 2018 10:26 AM CST
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
MustbeNuts -- Your Ralph Moore climber would have been on its own roots.
Aug 27, 2018 11:20 AM CST
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
Jeri - Your Carolyn Supinger is gorgeous!!! The color is amazing!! I assume it's a once bloomer? My friend would love to have that rose!! I just Kesroses post...I didn't realize that CS is a mini! Smiling

Mustbnuts - Your Candice looks superb!!! I especially love the 2nd picture...the buds look amazing!!! Wow! Thumbs up

Avatar for roseseek
Aug 27, 2018 11:46 AM CST
(Zone 9b)
Mustbnuts, your climber looks like Pink Powderpuff. The mini could be a faded Halo Sweetie or something containing the "halo" genes. He released quite a few bred from those sources which didn't show the "halo" strongly enough to be included in that series, but fade into it with age.

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