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Avatar for roseseek
Aug 28, 2018 11:43 AM CST
Thread OP
(Zone 9b)
William R. Smith
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Mons. Tillier

Tamalpais Homestead Tea

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Bassoues Tea

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Tiny Rambler, a seedling from (Wichurana X Floradora) X Tom Thumb
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Annie Laurie McDowell

Two year old climbing seedlings..scary!
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Gloire des Rosomanes
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Eight month old seedlings awaiting removal from the seedling table to make room for the new seeds. Even scarier!
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Double R. Spithamea continuing to believe it's still "spring"
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The tomatoes and Grey Pearl became a bit "too chummy", providing Grey Pearl the perfect cover for sneaking another flower. I habitually keep buds pinched off to force the plants to grow and not flowering themselves to death.
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Joyberry, so named as it is a seedling between Joycie and Basye's Blueberry. It flowers all the time and has a heavy old-rose scent.
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Even Dr. Huey thinks it's still "spring"
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Aug 28, 2018 11:45 AM CST
Name: Jim
Central Pa. (Zone 6a)
Fantastic blooms! Smiling
Aug 28, 2018 11:49 AM CST
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
I'm so glad you included 'Gloire des Rosomanes.'

I think it will always be among my favorites.
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Aug 28, 2018 2:02 PM CST
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
Roseseek - I am so impressed that you grew those monster ramblers from seeds!! Way to go!! Hurray! Wowza!! You have some gorgeous roses there, especially William R. Smith, Mons Tillier, and Bassoeus Tea!! Lovey dubby And that is an exquisite bloom of Grey Pearl!!! Drooling swoon!!

Avatar for porkpal
Aug 28, 2018 2:24 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
What are the genetics behind the over-achieving seedlings? Are they likely to be future house eaters? Those are some amazing roses!
Avatar for Plumeriagirl
Aug 28, 2018 2:26 PM CST
Name: Jin
Orlando, Fl (Zone 9b)
WOW Kim, such exquisite display of blooms. They are so gorgeous. I love all of them and you have a great selection of teas. ALM looks beautiful.
Growing from seeds, wow. That must be a long process of it which I read . Guess what ? I failed horribly.
I did a few years ago on Mr. Lincoln rose and at that time I have no clue what I got until Jeri told me. My seeds are still in my fridge which never grew or I am still at learning stage of elementary ..hahaha
Maybe next time I will get into it. For now, I rather buy .
Excellent photography and love the looks of your roses. Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!
P.S It is gloomy Tuesday here too in Florida.... raining.
Last edited by Plumeriagirl Aug 28, 2018 2:28 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for roseseek
Aug 28, 2018 3:06 PM CST
Thread OP
(Zone 9b)
Thank you. The larger, older climbers are from Nessie, my cross between Montecito (Brunonii and Gigantea) and Mlle Cecile Brunner, crossed with Annie Laurie McDowell, another of my roses. The results run from almost miniature, thornless, ever flowering plant that refuses to grow to cathedral eaters which have yet to flower. The younger seedlings from this year contain some Nessie genes but are also hybrids containing Lamarque, Secret Garden, George Washington Richardson (Mlle de Sombreuil), Florence Bowers Pink Tea and some others crossed with miniatures, floribundas and a few select HTs, among others. There are also a number of species crosses in that and the other two seedling tables, including Hugonis, Xanthina, Primula, Serafinii, Foliolosa, double R. Spithamea, Minutifolia, Stellata mirifica, Banksiae and Basye's Amphidiploid 86-3 (Banksiae X Laevigata) and R. X Actii (Wichurana X Hugonis). Those are definitely "what if?" type crosses.

Jin, I doubt you did anything "wrong" when you tried raising seeds, other than select a seed parent known to not germinate easily. I'm sure if you tried it again using a different seed parent your results would be much better. Seed raising is actually not time consuming at all, depending upon which parents you choose. Some types, such as Banksiae, are known to often require two (sometimes more) years to germinate, though I have had several from Banksiae lutescens germinate in as little as four months from planting. Many minis sprout very quickly. When I harvested the Nessie seeds, I anticipated them being large because the mother is large, bred from even larger types. When they came out the size of sesame seeds, I figured nothing would germinate. Wrong! They came up like Winter Rye! Even with house eaters, it is possible to raise small roses. There are several seedlings which have grown like oatmeal on a two year old and never flowered, while others are only a few inches tall and have flowered repeatedly, starting at only three or four months from planting.

If you honestly want to know what roses have proven themselves good seed parents, buy a premium membership from Help Me Find-Roses. It only costs $24 a year and supports a very worthy cause. That opens the door for you to be able to explore every parentage there which has any known information.
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What's really fun is being able to not only see what is behind the rose you are considering, but what else each one has helped create. Just click on any of the named roses in the tree and it takes you to that rose's page where you can explore all the same information about each one to your heart's content. You will notice some are used extensively as both seed and pollen parents while others are almost to never used as one or the other. You can obtain results from using pollen from many while they won't set seed or what they set just doesn't germinate. It's a bear trying to get Autumn Damask to set seed at all here, and when it does, it doesn't germinate, but by digging into many flowers, you can harvest enough pollen to use on several seed parents. Those seeds usually germinate more easily. If it won't work in one direction, try it the other.

I envy your rain, though not to the extent to which you are getting to "enjoy" it. Geoff at Cool Roses told me he had battled rain for a month which had caused a lot of the virus indexed Fortuniana I sent him to rot. We don't need THAT much rain, but a couple of inches, gently spread out over several weeks would certainly be acceptable!
Last edited by roseseek Aug 28, 2018 3:08 PM Icon for preview
Aug 28, 2018 4:59 PM CST
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
Roseseek - I've tried many times to grow roses from seed. I have had 0 luck with hybrid teas...the hips don't seem to have enough time to ripen here in zone 3b. However, I have had success with hardy roses: John Davis, Wild Berry Breeze, and others. I have a pinkish-whitish John Davis seedling which I named after my daughter, Holly. I called the seedling Holly Bells. I took a cutting of it, and I'm going to try the older seedling outside this winter.

Holly Bells

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It can have peachiness in the center.
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It can have green on the outside.

Another one I did is this one.

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I've given all (5) of them (but Holly Bells) to my friend, because they were from her roses. It's kind of amazing to create a brand new rose.
The only thing is that ALL of them were open pollinated. I would love to be able to hybridize some HTs by hand. The hips start to change color, and there are seeds inside...but they don't ripen. Darn. Any advice?
Last edited by Canadian_Rose Aug 28, 2018 5:04 PM Icon for preview
Aug 28, 2018 5:45 PM CST
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Kim, your roses are just beautiful!

Carol, I have always loved Holly Bell. The pink single is gorgeous too!
Aug 28, 2018 6:28 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Kim ....

I told you the other day that I was learning to use my new camera ... HA ! Just looking at your photos shows me how much I have to learn ... Smiling

Thank you ever so much for sharing those photos I tip my hat to you.

I don't know which one I like best ...

I may even let the Dr. Huey I have been trying to kill for years go ahead and grow ... not too tall because I still have to disbud it for the curculios.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Aug 28, 2018 6:43 PM CST
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
Mustbnuts - thanks so much!!!! Thank You! Right now the blooms have a light pink cast to them. Smiling

Avatar for Plumeriagirl
Aug 28, 2018 7:15 PM CST
Name: Jin
Orlando, Fl (Zone 9b)
Carol, you have beautiful roses. Oh, wow even I can't choose which one.
Kim, I read but I am not mixing any parents and have no intention nor interest.
When, I moved to this house my roses had huge big hips that was not deadheaded. I took my opportunity to read on line. The were reddish orangy colour .Something to do with cutting the hips and putting in water . I forget which is which you keep the ones that sink the float goes to waste Bec they are no good OR the other way around. Keep them in refrigerator for such and such time. The procedure was a long one. Trust me. I just look for the seeds but it is gone. I was thinking of taking a pic of it. This is so bizarre but I can't find it or remember what happened, maybe I used it all. Hmm ??

Kim, keep in touch with me about ALM. I absolutely cannot wait like a little girl opening presents on Christmas..the day never comes and it takes forever.. lol
You know what I mean. I am super excited.
I am sorry but we did have tons of rain. I don't know whether you saw my thread at Houzz but it rains so, so, so much here. I had issues with all my roses and I am so grateful that Dr. Malcolm Manners came to help me and also a lot of great rosarians.
Anyways, I love your roses and CAROL I love yours too .
Last edited by Plumeriagirl Aug 29, 2018 1:44 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for Plumeriagirl
Aug 28, 2018 7:22 PM CST
Name: Jin
Orlando, Fl (Zone 9b)
Kim, I forgot to ask you .
How is your Columbian rose coming along ? Any blooms yet ? Any pics ?
You know I will be going bonkers and drooling over it.
Aug 28, 2018 8:14 PM CST
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
Thanks so much Jin!!! Thank You! Group hug

Avatar for roseseek
Aug 28, 2018 8:22 PM CST
Thread OP
(Zone 9b)
Carol, your seedlings are pretty! Congratulations! Generally, rose seeds are ripe about 110 or so days after pollination. Do you usually have about three and a half months from first bloom to when you should have the hips harvested in your climate? If that's pushing things, perhaps HTs aren't suitable for your goals. Ripening is more a function of time than color change. If you're basing ripeness on the hip color, you may have ripe seeds from hips that either won't genetically turn the expected color or which won't due to climatic conditions.

Jin, no worries. You don't have to want to create your own roses nor raise them from seed. It honestly isn't as difficult as some instructions make it sound. The things fall off rose bushes all over the world and germinate on their own, so how difficult must it really be?

I will happily let you know what I hear from Geoff. Keep your fingers crossed! Cl Columbia is doing just fine, thank you. I sent budwood of it along with the Annie Laurie McDowell, Grey Pearl and Kimo to Steve and he confirmed all the requested plants are budded, so he will be contacting everyone who ordered them within a few weeks.

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Last edited by roseseek Aug 28, 2018 8:35 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for Plumeriagirl
Aug 28, 2018 8:54 PM CST
Name: Jin
Orlando, Fl (Zone 9b)
Woooow, it is so big now. And the color is soooo pink. It is gorgeous OMG I am already drooling. If only I can smell the scent over the internet.
How big does it grow ?
Oh why , oh why it is not in commerce....cry...drool... lol. Such a beauty !!
Thanks for sharing your Columbian . One will make it to commerce.
Avatar for roseseek
Aug 28, 2018 9:15 PM CST
Thread OP
(Zone 9b)
Cl Columbia has been in commerce, just not in recent years. This thing is 89 years old. How large it gets depends upon how sharp your pruning shears are. I grew it own root as a free standing bush in the old Newhall garden where it remained under seven feet. Even own root, if it has support and time, it can get quite large, but a budded plant will get there faster. These photos were taken at Rosemary's Roses in Columbia, CA May, 2017. Notice in the trees in the back ground, you will see a climbing rose with large, pink flowers. They ARE Cl. Columbia from an own root plant. It has grown there for YEARS.
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Avatar for porkpal
Aug 28, 2018 9:32 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
That is a VIGOROUS rose!
Avatar for Plumeriagirl
Aug 29, 2018 2:06 AM CST
Name: Jin
Orlando, Fl (Zone 9b)
It is still beautiful and it is great that it is vigorous and love heat. It looks great with all your friends Bec you can see how big it is.
I wonder if Dr . Malcolm has it..hmm
Next time if I go to his place around Feb. I will definitely ask him .
Kim, thank you so much for explaining. I totally appreciate everything you have done. I hope Lisa gave you a big hug on behalf of me....hehe.
Oh, I followed your suggestions about Rose tags. I absolutely loved it. Believed or not, all my tags got kinda washed out. A few broke with the stakes. But hanging this on the branches with rain , sun, heat , humidity, bugs and wind are great. It is cheap and economical but works great.

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Avatar for MargieNY
Aug 29, 2018 5:19 AM CST
Name: Margie
NY (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner 2020 Garden Ideas: Level 1
Plumeriagirl said:
Oh, I followed your suggestions about Rose tags. I absolutely loved it. Believed or not, all my tags got kinda washed out. A few broke with the stakes. But hanging this on the branches with rain , sun, heat , humidity, bugs and wind are great. It is cheap and economical but works great.

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Please tell me how you made these tags. Thanks a bunch.
Observe, observe, observe
We are fortunate to "see" & appreciate nature in ways others are blind.

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