Roses forum: Vintage Gardens Order

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Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
May 3, 2012 1:08 PM CST
I was impressed with my Vintage Gardens order. Of course the roses were all bands. That limited the possible size of the roses. Still, for bands they are pretty well developed roses. Of the thirty roses shipped, I think more than twenty were at least 14" tall and had at least two pencil-sized canes. The soil around the roots in every case held together completely as I was planting the roses. And at the moment they arrived, I think they just about doubled the number of buds in the garden. Looping - one of the roses in the shipment - is the only rose blooming in my garden right now.

There were a couple exceptions. Apricot Nectar and Campanile barely measure 6" in height, but they were clearly pruned to that height for some reason. So maybe they will recover quickly.

I am really happy that I took delivery this late in the spring planting season. These roses are growing like topsy and a frost would kill them instantly. Three years ago when I took my first deliveries of roses here from VG, they would have arrived in early April, if I remember correctly. They would almost certainly have been exposed to frost. A subsequent delivery was in fall. I have learned that roses planted in fall here fail. It's just what happens. So it seems that part of the reason for my failure with VG roses has been attributable to my own lack of knowledge in when to take delivery.

Of course some of the problem - especially early on when all sorts of critters were using my garden as a primary source of food - was that small roses got nibbled to death early in spring. Last year I requested that all roses they send me be 14" high at a minimum. They honored that request and some of the roses I love best survive from that shipment: Nouveau Monde, Centenaire des Lourdes, Coral Crown, Parfait, and Geisha. Interestingly, it looks like they did that again this year. Two of the roses on my order they are holding for a few weeks in order that they reach that size.

I truly don't know what's going to happen next. I've planted this year's shipment in 50% potting soil and am feeling very hopeful about them. It almost seems silly to expect many of them to survive, but right now everything in the garden is looking wonderful including the roses from VG. There is no hint of frost in the weather forecast for two weeks out. And frost rarely hits here in May. So maybe I'll be able to nurse them along until they get well established.
[Last edited by Steve812 - May 3, 2012 3:00 PM (+)]
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Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
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CindiKS
May 3, 2012 2:33 PM CST
How many did they substitute?
Your wonderful description makes me want to go ahead with my order.
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Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
May 3, 2012 3:09 PM CST
I now check the NO SUBSTITUTIONS box each time I order from them. I've just always been disappointed when the alternative rose showed up instead of the one I really wanted. I get almost as good a deal by just using my ARS membership and getting ten percent off. There were two roses in an order of thirty two that were just struck from the order. Not bad.

In fact, I was so happy with this order that I immediately started working on my second spring order with them. It started with trying to figure out how to use the credit for two roses. Before long I realized that I just wanted more roses. I still have to place it, but I do owe Gita an answer about what to do with the credit. I'll probably repent of this silly rosemania by this time next year, but right now I'm kind of enjoying it.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
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Skiekitty
May 3, 2012 3:19 PM CST
Wow! Pix? What I did with a couple of teenies from RU is I made a "rose collar" around them (I got a 2gal plant bucket, chopped the bottom off, put the bucket around the plant, then filled it to the brim with mulch). Both my English Perfume & Pure Poetry survived that way. Looks like Twilight Tryst did not, though.. but I thought that rose was big enough that it didn't need the protection. I was wrong.

What I don't like is that every single rose I was looking at from VG was out of stock or only custom root. Beh!
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Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
May 5, 2012 3:00 PM CST
On second thought...

I just finished squeezing my RVR order into the garden. I find that there are these places where shrub roses that are supposed to grow to five feet in height are planted less than three feet from a nearest neighbor. Maybe I need to wait at least until the end of the season to contemplate getting more roses. Maybe some rose that I really don't like will die and need to be replaced. Can't think of an example. I'm guessing both own-root Don Juan roses are on their way out, though. Probably be replaced by Sympathie from Palatine.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
May 5, 2012 10:05 PM CST
Squish 'em in! Yay!! There's ALWAYS room for one more rose!! Seriously!!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/Tweet...
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
May 1, 2017 2:46 PM CST
OK, so it's five years later. I'm quite sure that over the years I ordered a total of five or eight times from VG. My orders ranged from five to twenty plants each time. I think I placed three large orders in the year of their closing. I'm quite sure I ordered more than 100 roses in the last year alone, and I'd guess that it was more like two hundred all together...

These roses from VG survive: Nouveau Monde, Crepe Rose, Centennaire des Lourdes, America, and Climbing Gold Badge. The latter two roses have not yet grown waist high. Cl Gold Badge has yet to bloom. I treasure the two cultivars that are no longer in commerce; but I am not sure I'd pay the full sum that I did to get them.

Moral of the story:
1) It's a rare hybrid tea rose that will survive the yo-yo freeze-thaw cycling of an Arizona Mountains spring.
2) It's a rare hybrid tea rose or floribunda that will thrive on its own roots. Roses bred before propagation by budding, on average, fare better.
3) It's a rare rose that can go from growing in a band in a California greenhouse to growing in a garden. Ones from other places have a better record; so, too, gallon plants.

I would draw similar conclusions based on experiences with Rogue Valley Roses, Heirloom Roses, and Antique Rose Emporium, although I can say that in all of these cases, my batting average has been materially higher.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
May 1, 2017 7:06 PM CST
I'll go even further and tell you that very few own-root hybrid teas from Vintage Gardens survived in a California garden just a few miles from Vintage Gardens. I think I bought close to a thousand roses from Vintage over the years. At least 600 were hybrid teas. I might have 10 or 12 of their hybrid teas left, and not one is impressive in size or vigor. Many of the own-root floribundas and shrubs I bought from Vintage did survive, but the hybrid teas were largely a waste of money. I kick myself now for not learning my lesson sooner. I actually bought some of those hybrid teas three times. Each time one died, I'd blame myself and buy another. I never bought one a fourth time, though, so I'm not a complete idiot. Big Grin
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
May 1, 2017 7:12 PM CST

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Hilarious!
We live about a 10 minute drive from them, haven't been there in 5 years. Don't care to go again but that's personal. Rolling my eyes.
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Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
May 2, 2017 8:30 AM CST
Zuzu and Sue, I'm sorry to hear that you suffered the same problem I did with VG HT roses. The dream that VG sold was compelling; too bad that when it came to HTs it was mostly an illusion. I think I had one Casino survive for a whole year before it was killed by frost.

Given that you lost a lot of HT roses, however, I am very glad that you said so. It makes me feel a bit better to be in good company.

I do have some floribundas doing well on their own roots: Gene Borner comes to mind, although I think that rose might have come from another nursery. And there are two ankle-high floribundas with pink flowers that might have come from VG. I keep forgetting about them. Parfait, sadly, died.

It's hard to sort out the great combination of factors that contribute to a rose's success or failure; but we learn a tiny little bit more from time to time.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
May 2, 2017 10:54 AM CST
Given the name "Vintage Garden", how are they on old garden roses?
Porkpal
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
May 2, 2017 11:47 AM CST
One man's vintage might be older than another's. I think the official definition of OGRs is 'before the breeding of La France in 1876', while a better one might be 'before the incorporation of R foetida bicolor into HT roses, ca. 1900.'

They had a lot of depth, as I remember, in a lot of different areas; but I found their unique strength to be the HTs and floribundas from the fifties and sixties (some seventies & eighties). They had a good bench of hybrid musk roses. And I think they had quite a few near-species hybrids. The batting average for bands in these near-species areas might have approached four or five times higher, perhaps. I'd estimate something close to twenty percent. I've had orders from ARE where I've done worse, but in these cases my own ignorance of how roses react to local conditions played a big role.

I did not even realize they were still in business. They closed down the mail order business ca. 2012.

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