Cactus and Succulents forum: What's interesting at my place today.

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Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 23, 2018 9:46 PM CST
Unknown Yucca flowering. Pity I can't set seed on it.

Thumb of 2018-10-24/ausrpned/905183
23rd October 2018
Cheers


The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
[Last edited by ausrpned - Oct 25, 2018 4:09 AM (+)]
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Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 25, 2018 4:21 AM CST
One of my Cereus seedlings flowered overnight. Still a bit cool here for this time of the year.
Thumb of 2018-10-25/ausrpned/337c94
Am really pleased with the intergeneric hybrid Cereus NOID x Echinopsis hybrid.
It flowered twice last year, as a two year old, this year however flowering may be a memorable event.
Thumb of 2018-10-25/ausrpned/38599f
Cheers
25th October 2018

The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 25, 2018 8:16 PM CST
Noticed what I think highly likely to be developing flower buds on the local Mistletoe.

Looking forward to seeing whether I'm just dreaming.

Thumb of 2018-10-26/ausrpned/ec0b04
Yellow spots near what I think may be developing flower buds. Pity the Camera isn't fitted with a Flash.

Cheers

The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 27, 2018 2:26 AM CST
Annually Wood Ducks as I call them, they nest in trees, pay me a visit. This year they must have been carrying a payload.

Noticed today the reed(?) is starting to produce flowers.
Thumb of 2018-10-27/ausrpned/f992f1
The Azolla is dying back but the Bacopa has started to grow over the past week.
Cheers
The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Oct 27, 2018 2:47 AM CST
You live in australia , right? Do you have any of the invasive harrisa?
Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 28, 2018 6:58 AM CST
skopjecollection said:You live in australia , right? Do you have any of the invasive harrisa?


Best to follow the link, https://florabase.dpaw.wa.gov...., and use the search facility, it will provide you with more info than I have.

Cheers
The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 28, 2018 7:03 AM CST
Some trees in one of my windbreaks, started flowering not long ago. In full bloom now, standing near them makes you think you're in the midst of a swarm of Bees.

Luckily many years ago I was involved with Beekeeping, so Bees don't worry me a great deal.

Thumb of 2018-10-28/ausrpned/8eaba0

Cheers
The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Oct 28, 2018 7:22 AM CST
....it seems you have no idea what im talking about, and arent well versed in nomenclature... Sighing!
The plant" Cereus NOID x Echinopsis hybrid" doesnt exist. The plant youre referring to is trichocereus(which has been split from regular cereus ) and is now under echinopsis.....
Its basically just an echinopsis hybrid...nothing intergenic....
The difference would be that true cereus(like your first plant) have long tubular flowers which are hairless and spineless...
Trichocereus, and it shares this trait with echinopsis , has long tubular hairy flowers........often covered with scales...
From what it looks like, the echinopsis may be grafted instead....
[Last edited by skopjecollection - Oct 28, 2018 7:25 AM (+)]
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Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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Baja_Costero
Oct 28, 2018 9:46 AM CST

Moderator

skopjecollection said:....it seems you have no idea what im talking about, and arent well versed in nomenclature... Sighing!


Stefan, be nice. Blinking
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Oct 28, 2018 9:47 AM (+)]
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Oct 28, 2018 10:19 AM CST
Im sorry, but i asked whether the user had a harrisia and they pointed me to that...
https://florabase.dpaw.wa.gov....
Id rather people answer with yes or no....I did make my assumption based on a previous reply as well.....
I dont know how to fare with this....
[Last edited by skopjecollection - Oct 28, 2018 10:22 AM (+)]
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Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 28, 2018 7:21 PM CST
>>The plant" Cereus NOID x Echinopsis hybrid" doesn't exist. The plant you're referring to is trichocereus(which has been split from regular cereus ) and is now under echinopsis.....
>>Its basically just an echinopsis hybrid...nothing intergenic....

---You're right it is grafted. The parent Echinopsis hybrid, see https://garden.org/pics/2018-1..., flowered last night.

---Cereus NOID, this is the other parent, a Cereus of unknown parentage. It has a flower such as you mention as being for a true Cereus, and no, it is not the rootstock.

>>The difference would be that true cereus(like your first plant) have long tubular flowers which are hairless and spineless...
Trichocereus, and it shares this trait with echinopsis , has long tubular hairy flowers........often covered with scales...

>>From what it looks like, the echinopsis may be grafted instead.....


The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
[Last edited by ausrpned - Oct 28, 2018 7:26 PM (+)]
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Oct 28, 2018 10:56 PM CST
Nope. Cereus and echinopsis dont interbreed....
Look it up.
Echinopsis is in the trichocereae tribe, cereus is in the cereae tribe. No hybrids exist..
Grafting does not make hybrids...
Echinopsis does a lot of hybrids with relatives(or plants that are now under echinopsis), among the lines of echinopsis x trichocereus, x lobivia, x cleistocactus, x matucana, x oreocereus etc...


Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 28, 2018 11:24 PM CST
skopjecollection said:Nope. Cereus and echinopsis dont interbreed....
Look it up.
Echinopsis is in the trichocereae tribe, cereus is in the cereae tribe. No hybrids exist..
Grafting does not make hybrids...
Echinopsis does a lot of hybrids with relatives(or plants that are now under echinopsis), among the lines of echinopsis x trichocereus, x lobivia, x cleistocactus, x matucana, x oreocereus etc...


The other parent looks like a Cereus and as far as I'm concerned that's what it is.

The seed which resulted from the cross had two which germinated, one was not viable in the long run, the other is what I have posted.

Think you may find this link of interest, https://www.bbc.co.uk/programm... and in particular the Multiple Genes episode, interesting.

The whole series is particularly interesting as far as I am concerned.

Cheers
The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Oct 29, 2018 12:12 AM CST
"The other parent looks like a Cereus "
To my knowledge, at least 10genera possess plants that look like cereus..
To list:
Neoraimondia
Stenocereus
Pachycereus
Polaskia
Trichocereus(now echinopsis)
Pilosocereus
Dendrocereus
Armatocereus
Myrtillocactus
Neobuxbaumia
Rauhocereus
Stetsonia
Corryocactus
...
So, thats a lot of plants that look like the original cereus to some degree...
Intergenic pollination has not been achieved, nor it is plausible....
Its likely somehow self pollinated in the process....
Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 29, 2018 1:29 AM CST
On the list which species hybridises with the Hylocereinae?
The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Oct 29, 2018 5:14 AM CST
None. Hylocereniae (disocactus(former aporocactus), epiphyllum, hylocereus, selenicereus,weberocereus and psedorhipsalis )dont form hybids with other plants..
Epiphyllum and disocactus can mix, and a lot, and they are popular...
Ive heard of hybrids between those 2 and selenicereus, or selenicereus and hylocereus, but could be mix ups at best...
Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 29, 2018 5:49 PM CST
skopjecollection said:None. Hylocereniae (disocactus(former aporocactus), epiphyllum, hylocereus, selenicereus,weberocereus and psedorhipsalis )dont form hybids with other plants..
Epiphyllum and disocactus can mix, and a lot, and they are popular...
Ive heard of hybrids between those 2 and selenicereus, or selenicereus and hylocereus, but could be mix ups at best...


Nonsense, look at the middle right hand photo of a hybrid graft, https://garden.org/pics/2017-1...,

Scion is a hybrid, the result of a cross between what is highly likely to be C. repandus and a member of the Hylocereinae.

The scion has now been de-grafted after the fruit was not up to my standards.

Last season there were fruits set between the C. repandus and the scion and vice versa.

Admittedly the fruit resulting from the C. repandus x scion was smaller than that using other clones, the reverse pollination produced a good size fruit.

The C. repandus is not self fertile.

It will only be a few days before the echinopsis scion flowers, keep an eye on the thread and you can compare the flowers with that of one of it's parent's.

This will be my last post on the topic, more important matters need my time.

Cheers.

The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Name: Thijs van Soest
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
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mcvansoest
Oct 29, 2018 8:17 PM CST
So, at risk of getting involved in this, I have to ask for a clarification.

Like Stefan says it looks like you grafted an echinopsis (or Trichocereus) cutting to a Cereus - your C. noid. The Echinopsis flowered and set fruit and you think that fruit contains seed that is of hybrid origin between the Cereus and the Echinopsis grafted onto it?

Is my understanding correct?

If so, my question is - how do you know that the Echinopsis flower was fertilized with pollen form the Cereus flower? Did you do it yourself? If not how can you be certain that a sneaky bee, or other insect, or any kind of local interested pollinator, did not pollinate the plant with pollen from another plant in flower at the same time that was potentially more compatible or if it may have self pollinated, which is not completely unknown among some Echinopsis species.

I do not know if Cereus x Echinopsis hybrids are possible. I am inclined to think no, because I would have expected there to be oodles out there to try and make Cereus sized plants with brightly colored flowers. The whole reason people started hybridizing Echinopsis/Trichocereus/Lobivia/etc in the first place, was to create larger plants readily flowering plants with brightly colored large flowers, Cereus would have been the obvious target as a hybridizing partner in terms of overall plant size and flower size, if they were compatible.

If not, I do not understand how you can think you have acquired something that is a hybrid between Cereus NOID and the grafted on Echinopsis?

If the Echinopsis produced an offset on its own stem, then that is just another Echinopsis hybrid of the same kind genetically identical to the plant that produced it. If you graft a plant on another plant the plant it is grafted on takes care of the scions needs as in water and nutrients, but their genetics do not automatically mix unless you successfully produce viable seed from cross pollinating between the flowers of the different species, but unless you did that in a controlled environment you have no way of knowing if those two plants actually were crossed with each other.

Sorry if this is all really basic to you, but the discussion here got really confusing to me.
Gingin Western Australia
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ausrpned
Oct 30, 2018 12:13 AM CST
mcvansoest said:So, at risk of getting involved in this, I have to ask for a clarification.

Like Stefan says it looks like you grafted an echinopsis (or Trichocereus) cutting to a Cereus - your C. noid. The Echinopsis flowered and set fruit and you think that fruit contains seed that is of hybrid origin between the Cereus and the Echinopsis grafted onto it?

Is my understanding correct?

- No, the echinopsis is grafted to one of my seedlings

If so, my question is - how do you know that the Echinopsis flower was fertilized with pollen form the Cereus flower?

Did you do it yourself?
- Yes

If not how can you be certain that a sneaky bee, or other insect, or any kind of local interested pollinator, did not pollinate the plant with pollen from another plant in flower at the same time that was potentially more compatible or if it may have self pollinated, which is not completely unknown among some Echinopsis species.

- Flowers are restrained from opening with rubber bands which are re-applied following the pollination.

I do not know if Cereus x Echinopsis hybrids are possible. I am inclined to think no, because I would have expected there to be oodles out there to try and make Cereus sized plants with brightly colored flowers. The whole reason people started hybridizing Echinopsis/Trichocereus/Lobivia/etc in the first place, was to create larger plants readily flowering plants with brightly colored large flowers, Cereus would have been the obvious target as a hybridizing partner in terms of overall plant size and flower size, if they were compatible.

If not, I do not understand how you can think you have acquired something that is a hybrid between Cereus NOID and the grafted on Echinopsis?

- Sowed seed after collecting it from the dried fruit.

If the Echinopsis produced an offset on its own stem, then that is just another Echinopsis hybrid of the same kind genetically identical to the plant that produced it. If you graft a plant on another plant the plant it is grafted on takes care of the scions needs as in water and nutrients, but their genetics do not automatically mix unless you successfully produce viable seed from cross pollinating between the flowers of the different species, but unless you did that in a controlled environment you have no way of knowing if those two plants actually were crossed with each other.

Sorry if this is all really basic to you, but the discussion here got really confusing to me.

- In summary I follow normal breeding protocols.


Have two A. americana quiotes coming up, will remove them shortly.

Have eaten portions of one in the past, a bit bland.

Cheers

Thumb of 2018-10-30/ausrpned/4199c2

The only way to succeed is to try.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Go team SpaceX, go.
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Oct 30, 2018 12:39 AM CST
I do believe that there's more to it than that if you want to make hybrids...
To stop self pollination, people often cover the stigma and cut of the flowers own pollen spikes...
On top of that, there is the part where you said you grafted "onto a seedling", where as the part thats used as a host with roots is called a grafting stock. A seedling is a young plant, where as grafting stocks are often older columnar plants with high growth speed and tough roots..The part you graft on the stock is called a scion...and IT is either a seedling, an offshoot/branch, or an areole in rare cases...
[Last edited by skopjecollection - Oct 30, 2018 12:51 AM (+)]
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