Irises forum: Iris Identification

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Name: Ron Neidigh
Pueblo, CO (Zone 5b)
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MomsIris
Oct 25, 2018 11:19 AM CST
I inherited several Iris from my mother. One she had as "Floor Show" . Looking at the Floor Show in the data base, the "Standards" are a light yellow/gold. Mine are more light brown/tan. Is mine a different plant or a typical variation plant to plant. The photo looks more gold than in person. If it is a different plant, any guess as to which. This was a total surprise. Out of some 200 non rebloom plants, this is the first to bloom in the fall. This one opened today. It was outside when the flower stalk showed so I transplanted it into a pot to bring inside so it would not freeze here in Colorado. Thanks
Thumb of 2018-10-25/rvneidigh/70d0f5

Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Oct 25, 2018 12:20 PM CST
Welcome!

How long has your Mother had this plant? It could be that it really is "Floorshow" but, as plants with bulbs/rhizomes grow away from that original plant, they also change. Does that make sense? Your Mother had the plant but, the following year, the iris grew new rhizomes that replaced that first rhizome. Then those were replaced by new ones the following year, etc. Through the years, small indetectable changes occured. Its still "Floorshow" but it doesn't look like the "Floorshow" on the internet.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Ron Neidigh
Pueblo, CO (Zone 5b)
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MomsIris
Oct 25, 2018 1:43 PM CST
Thank you for the insight. The plant is 30+ years in the family with many dividing and plantings. If mine has changed over the years, would that be true of all sources or is there a way to get a true color "Floorshow".
Name: Monty Riggles
Henry County, Virginia (Zone 7a)
Oops. The weeds took over!
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UndyingLight
Oct 25, 2018 1:58 PM CST
Welcome, Ron to the iris forums! Welcome!

Daisy makes a great point. Though I don't have much experience with irises at all, I have seen irises on these forums that have similar ideas. On rhizome is planted here, and one close by, but different blooms. I suppose the older the babies from the very first mother rhizome that was planted, as Daisy said, begin to slowly make incrimental changes. Well, over 30 years, I could see quite a big difference. Older rhizome blooms may look more faded versus a brand new rhizome sending up a bloom.

Your iris may be the same, but because of the nature of irises, has slightly differed in colour over the years.

One thing for sure, your rebloom looks fantastic!
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Name: Evelyn
Northern CA (Zone 8a)
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evelyninthegarden
Oct 25, 2018 2:17 PM CST
Ron ~ First, I would like to welcome you to the Iris Forum! Hurray!

Thank You! for posing your question. Maybe someone here has Floorshow and can help you out with it.

In my limited experience and studies over the past couple of years, I can only offer what "might" be the answer. First of all, some irises do have slight color variation in different soils, and when photographed in sun or shade, can appear to be quite different. There also is the possibility that the original iris died out, and a vigorous seedling took over in its place, with no one the wiser.

Here is a picture of Floorshow in our database:



Anyone else have any other ideas?

"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Name: Robin
Melbourne, Australia (Zone 10b)
Region: Australia Irises Garden Photography Cat Lover Seed Starter
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Totally_Amazing
Oct 25, 2018 4:18 PM CST
Welcome! Ron,

If you google this iris, you will notice many variations in the images that are displayed, some showing tan standards and some have hints of purple.
The American Iris Society website has a written description of the iris and several images.
http://wiki.irises.org/TbFthru...
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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KentPfeiffer
Oct 25, 2018 5:01 PM CST

Moderator

rvneidigh said:Thank you for the insight. The plant is 30+ years in the family with many dividing and plantings. If mine has changed over the years, would that be true of all sources or is there a way to get a true color "Floorshow".


Daisy's guess is theoretically possible, but it's highly unlikely. The primary reason various pictures of Floorshow, or any variety of iris, look different from each other is difference in lighting at the time the pictures were taken. Different cameras can skew the colors as well. As for real life differences in color, weather during bloom, and in the months leading up to bloom can have a pretty dramatic impact on the appearance of the flowers. It's often claimed that difference in soils affect color, although I suspect that one is overstated, conflated with the effects of weather IMO. Shrug!

The most that can be said about your plants is that they are more or less consistent with 'Floorshow'. If you really want to know for certain that your plants are 'Floorshow', the usual recommendation is to acquire a rhizome of 'Floorshow' from a known source and grow it next to yours. You'll be able to tell if they truly are the same plant the next time they bloom (which, by the way, wouldn't be possible if Daisy's explanation were true).

Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
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Australis
Oct 25, 2018 5:40 PM CST

Plants Admin

I agree

It is likely a combination of lighting and growing conditions. The vast majority of cultivars are quite stable and do not change over time (and if a mutation does occur, it's called a "sport" and is usually obviously different), although they may lose vigour as they age more and more.

A "new" rhizome of a cultivar isn't possible. If you think about it, all rhizomes of a cultivar are derived from the one original seedling. Only the conditions the various pieces have been subjected to will determine how much they age.
Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
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The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Oct 25, 2018 6:48 PM CST
I'm surprised, Australis, that you are saying cloned plants don't change. Its been a major problem in the orchid industry when unscrupulous growers buy a clone from the grocery (or where ever) and clone the clone. Because, although these plants have the same name and same DNA, they may look different and are essentially destroying that particular cultivator by introducing cheap imitations. I think its the reason for all those letters behind orchid cultivator names.

Its also been a problem with a few rare orchid plants that have been around for 100 years and "drifted" away from that original plant.

Iris are cloning themselves and every generation is going to have some un-noticed mutations. Sports are instant. Regenerative cloning takes years.

I admit that environment has the most to do with an Iris not blooming according to the master plan but don't rule out the power of genetics and time.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/r...

https://phys.org/news/2011-07-...

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator Avid Green Pages Reviewer
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Australis
Oct 25, 2018 9:28 PM CST

Plants Admin

Daisy, you are certainly right with regards to cloned plants. Plants cloned by tissue culture have greatly increased risk of mutation - with the Orchid industry particularly bad, especially with (as you say) unscrupulous individuals cloning clones or making large clonal runs from insufficient source tissue.

I am not aware of tissue culture cloning techniques for Irises (with the exception of Dutch Iris); they reproduce vegetatively. It would be the same as if I divided my Cymbidium orchids - they are a division of the original, not a mericlone. This is where environmental factors become a much bigger influence, as if you keep the plant healthy, the rate of natural mutation will be low.

I hope that clarifies why I said cultivars shouldn't change; most are not prone to high natural mutation rates.

Edit: I should also add that many older inherited plants (even Orchids) likely pre-date modern tissue culture techniques as well and were propagated vegetatively.
Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
My Notes: Orchid Genera HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Traits HTML PDF --- Lilium Species Crosses HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Species Diagram
The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
[Last edited by Australis - Oct 25, 2018 9:31 PM (+)]
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Oct 26, 2018 9:56 AM CST
Okay, back to the top. It could be that this 30 year old iris has changed a little over the years due to its cloning of itself for 30 years. I can't find any articles I can actually understand that deal with vegetative propagation. As Kent suggested, the only way to tell is to find another Floorshow and plant them side by side but, my suggestion is a very reasonable possibility. Its not a high mutation rate but a slow, subtle change over many years.

I would agree that environment plays a part but the act of 'self-cloning' also plays a part. But to blame most of the change on the ability of the photographer? I can't agree with that.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Ron Neidigh
Pueblo, CO (Zone 5b)
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MomsIris
Oct 26, 2018 1:46 PM CST
Thank you all for your comments, and suggested causes. I just looked on the web and only find Floorshows like mine for sale. If anyone knows of a source for one like the one in the data base (Yellow/Gold Standards), I am interested in acquiring one. Thanks Again.
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
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Paul2032
Oct 26, 2018 2:17 PM CST
I have grown Iris since the 1960's . I have grown 100's of different cultivars in my own garden and visited many other gardens. I have contributed over 2000 photos to NGA of Iris, nearly 2000 of Hostas, and 1500 of roses. All were taken with the SAME camera. Pictures of the same flower often from a different angle vary, often widely. .Differences were not due to cloning....... Lighting makes the major difference in coloring of the same iris when photographed. I agree with Kent's comments. ..........also .Hostas are often produced by tissue culture and there is often changes in the plants produced I am not aware of this in iris......
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
[Last edited by Paul2032 - Oct 26, 2018 2:31 PM (+)]
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Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Irises Keeper of Poultry Roses Dragonflies Birds
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Henhouse
Oct 29, 2018 1:59 AM CST
Daisy,
Cloning and dividing are different processes. When you divide a bearded Iris, you are taking a piece of the rhizome that already has leaves and dormant roots starting to form. It's no different than taking a piece of Jade plant and sticking it in soil to grow. It will be the same. Tissue culture is taking plant cells and growing them in a medium.. I would think the end result would be the same, but haven't read up on the problems with orchids and cloning.

Ron,
Lucky you, having an Iris that's been in your family for so long.
The colors registered by growers are as they see them, or maybe wish to see them. Sometimes, I feel the descriptions of colors can be more poetic than accurate. One grower's idea of what yellow/gold is might differ from another's. There are also color charts used in selecting a color to register an Iris, but I don't know if it's uniform in the industry. You may notice your Iris may change color from day one, through day three or so.. Maybe fading, going from bright to soft, or tan.
I'd go ahead and order a 'Floor Show' from a reputable source next year to compare with yours, if you have any doubts with the name. Remember that Iris get lonely... you might want to order a couple more to go with it Whistling Hilarious!
The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us.
Name: Evelyn
Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Hybridizer Region: United States of America Region: California Annuals Bulbs Butterflies
Cat Lover Foliage Fan Irises Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter
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evelyninthegarden
Oct 29, 2018 10:19 AM CST
Henhouse said:Remember that Iris get lonely... you might want to order a couple more to go with it Whistling Hilarious!


Sherry ~ Who has any "lonely irises" on this forum? Rolling on the floor laughing Whistling

"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Name: Ron Neidigh
Pueblo, CO (Zone 5b)
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MomsIris
Oct 29, 2018 4:15 PM CST
My Floorshow is not lonely. I have seven varieties I inherited from my mother and another sixteen rebloom varieties. I had the seven in two raised beds that became unmanageable. In 2016 I moved everything into my vegetable garden and have moved each variety back to the raised beds as they bloomed but into their own little box about 24" X 24" in the raised bed. Now two summers later, I have all 23 varieties back in the raised beds and still have about 200 plants in my garden to dispose of as they bloom in 2019 to make sure I have not missed any varieties. Those 200 plants could probably be divided into 3-400 new plantings. I can't stand the thought of discarding them so have been giving them to friends etc. I have pollinated 4 of the flowers on my Floorshow and it looks like I have some success. Be interesting to see what variations I get in two years.
Name: Monty Riggles
Henry County, Virginia (Zone 7a)
Oops. The weeds took over!
Irises Region: Virginia Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Garden Procrastinator
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UndyingLight
Oct 29, 2018 4:53 PM CST
You have a lot there, Ron! That's always so fun to see. Your spring will certainly be interesting!

Did these 200 or so come from just 23 varieties? If so, wow! I'm guessing if there was a lot of Floorshow, there may be a lot of the others too.
Good luck with your seedlings! I bet you're really looking forward to their blooms!

One thing that can help with disposing of your extras is, share with the members here, if you would like. I am sure there are a few of us that would love some of your varieties if you could spare. Sticking tongue out
Dolly the chicken thinks my head is food!
Name: Ron Neidigh
Pueblo, CO (Zone 5b)
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MomsIris
Oct 29, 2018 5:22 PM CST
I plan to share with this group. It has been fun reading the dialog above. I will have to study up on how to prepare plants for shipping and/or pickup. Two of my rebloom varieties have already outgrown its "box" and will be thinned once they are done trying to bloom in freezing nights. They are "Innocent Star" and "Priscillia of Corinth". The database indicates members that want these varieties so I will change them in my list to "will trade" when they are available.
Name: Monty Riggles
Henry County, Virginia (Zone 7a)
Oops. The weeds took over!
Irises Region: Virginia Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Garden Procrastinator
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UndyingLight
Oct 29, 2018 5:41 PM CST
Awesome to hear! I am also enjoying this thread; it is pretty heavy in iris details!

I know the feeling. I joined the site in August and I am planning to ship out my very first box in the next couple days. I wish you good luck!

How has Innocent Star done for you? I've wanted that variety for a while now, but when I made my order to Winterberry, they were out, sadly. Priscillia of Corinth is lovely. I've never heard of that one before, but now it is on my wish list. Golly, my wish list has gotten...rather large. Rolling my eyes.
Dolly the chicken thinks my head is food!
Name: Ron Neidigh
Pueblo, CO (Zone 5b)
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MomsIris
Nov 1, 2018 7:38 PM CST
Undyinglight
I have only had Innocent Star for two years and this year is the firstyear to bloom. It did well in the spring, two bloom stalks per plant (2). This fall has been really hard on plants. Freeze-warm-freeze etc. All of the blooms have been frozen before opening but they are still trying even after 3" of snow. Going to have to give up for this fall and cut them back soon.

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