Plant ID forum→What is this brush, and how to kill roots?

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Pennsylvania (PA)
bigpig
Oct 28, 2018 10:31 AM CST
Hello!

I have about 1/2 acre of this brush which I'm chopping down to the ground roots. What is the best approach to kill the roots? Excavation seems like it would take forever. Weed killer? What else?
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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Oct 28, 2018 12:32 PM CST
That looks like Virginia Creeper. If you don't want to use chemicals, covering the area with tarps/black plastic for months might work. If you do not mind weedkillers, don't chop it so that you can spray the leaves or find the main "trunk" , cut it and use full strength brush killer on its cut surface.
Porkpal
Pennsylvania (PA)
bigpig
Oct 28, 2018 5:25 PM CST
porkpal said:That looks like Virginia Creeper. If you don't want to use chemicals, covering the area with tarps/black plastic for months might work. If you do not mind weedkillers, don't chop it so that you can spray the leaves or find the main "trunk" , cut it and use full strength brush killer on its cut surface.


Thanks, I have already cut down to the routes. What are my options now, if I did want to go down the chemicals route?

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Oct 28, 2018 6:43 PM CST
Paint whatever stems you sever with an undiluted brush killer. I would use Remedy, but I don't know what your options are there.
Porkpal
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Charter ATP Member Bookworm Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California
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ctcarol
Oct 28, 2018 7:09 PM CST
In any case, I believe you will need to make a fresh cut for the chemical to work. Read directions carefully!
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
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ViburnumValley
Oct 31, 2018 4:42 PM CST
Understand the chemistry of the herbicides you use, in addition to reading the label!

The active ingredient listed for Remedy (suggested above) is triclopyr. This chemical can and does have off-target effects when absorbed into the plant it is applied to. In layman's terms, this type of chemical is absorbed into a plant and distributed via its vascular system which is how it kills the target plant. However, the chemical is persistent and can be absorbed from the dead plant's root system by other plants which have roots growing in the vicinity - as well as by any accidental overspray of the chemical initially. Do a search for off target effects of this chemical, and read for yourself.

Be very careful with these kinds of persistent herbicides. They are most often intended to eliminate any woody plants - such as in grazing/pastureland, or under utility lines. They are not as good a choice in the situation you present, where you have a lot of plants to kill growing amongst what I presume is a woodland where you would like to keep healthy trees.

Show some closer images of what you have been chopping down. If these are brushy/shrublike plants, I wonder if it is Acanthopanax sieboldianus (syn. Eleutherococcus sieboldianus) which can run amok in places like Pennsylvania. It helps to know exactly what you are battling before choosing your weapon, too.
John
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Charter ATP Member Bookworm Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California
Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Oct 31, 2018 5:03 PM CST
Great advice, John! I had an applicator's license for 18 or so years, so had to keep up studies. Unfortunately, most home gardeners don't know where to get this info. They can always get the full instructions off the container or manufactures website, as well as the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). They can also find out if it is licensed in their state by going to their Gov. pages and looking for pesticide regulations.
Pennsylvania (PA)
bigpig
Oct 31, 2018 7:24 PM CST
Thanks, yes I am very worried about off target effects on the nearby trees. Here are close up pictures.
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[Last edited by bigpig - Nov 1, 2018 2:52 PM (+)]
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Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Enjoys or suffers cold winters Dog Lover Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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ViburnumValley
Nov 1, 2018 2:48 PM CST
Agreed, Carol. I too professionally applied pesticides of many kinds for a dozen years or more. Caution (as in: "First, do no harm TO THE GOOD STUFF") should always be the order of the day.

Home gardeners and other nonprofessionals can source information where you've mentioned, as well as reviewing online publications made by organizations with many years experience trying to defeat invasive exotics - but not at the expense of local flora. The Nature Conservancy, most of the Wild Ones chapters, the Exotic Pest Plant Councils, and likely a host of others have been doing this good work for quite some time. The information they've published is often time-tested and target specific.

About the only thing better is to find a very local organization doing the same thing - which, depending on where you are in Pennsylvania, should not be hard to do. The major cities like Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have ongoing programs, and there are many horticultural institutions (arboreta, gardens, state parks, state forests) which also do this.
John
Pennsylvania (PA)
bigpig
Nov 1, 2018 2:52 PM CST
Note - added close up pictures.
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Enjoys or suffers cold winters Dog Lover Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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ViburnumValley
Nov 1, 2018 3:49 PM CST
Hi again, bigpig:

Your closeup pictures have not arrived.

I wanted to take this opportunity to give a cautionary tale from very close to home - my neighbor.

He lives on 25 acres, part woodland and part pasture. He raises cattle, and had expected to harvest mature ash trees from his woodland as part of retirement income. The advent and advance of Emerald Ash Borer in the Ohio River valley region since the mid 2000s hastened his interest in harvesting lumber from his land.

Upon inspection of this woodland by individuals knowledgeable in the trade, he was quizzed about his land management activities over the years. He remarked on keeping the woodland floor - mostly tall fescue and other herbaceous flora - clear of weedy and brushy woody plants. He was asked how he did this. He remarked that he had been able to acquire a quantity of the banned chemical 2, 4, 5-T and that it did a very good job eliminating these unwanted species.

He shouldn't have been, but was surprised to hear from the knowledgeable individuals inspecting his trees that he had severely damaged all those trees (that he had planned to gain value from) by use of this type herbicide - because of 2, 4, 5 -T's persistence in the soil and its off-target effects beyond killing a targeted plant. This off-target effect problem is exacerbated when this kind of chemical is used chronically over long periods of time, in this case nearly 35 years.

Over the years, he had often offered to assist in my own battle with Lonicera maackii and other invaders, but I always declined and still wonder to this day why he thinks that he is exempt from the negative consequences. He has personally poisoned his own land, but refuses to accept that it is because of his own actions.

Please exercise extraordinary caution when using any pesticides, and ask questions when information is not immediately evident.
John
Pennsylvania (PA)
bigpig
Nov 1, 2018 3:52 PM CST
Close up pictures were added to an earlier post in the thread.
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Enjoys or suffers cold winters Dog Lover Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Image
ViburnumValley
Nov 1, 2018 4:13 PM CST
Thanks for the images while I was long-windedly typing my latest epistle...

That is as I suspected: Eleutherococcus/Acanthopanax sieboldianus - Fiveleaf Aralia. In the second picture, you can clearly see the tell-tale little thorns at the stem nodes below each leaf petiole. I trust you've been wearing gloves while working around this beast.

Here are some resources you may find useful:

https://www.invasiveplantatlas...
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/6...
https://studyres.com/doc/77721...
https://www.bio.upenn.edu/biop...



John
Sydney, NSW lower north shore
jackharry
Nov 1, 2018 5:29 PM CST
Hello
We have a very very large back yard tree I'm trying to identify. Ficus Elastica or Morton bay fig
Is anyone able to tell me what it is.
thank you
robert
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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Nov 1, 2018 5:35 PM CST
@jackharry welcome! Your question will get more attention if you post it in a fresh thread.
Porkpal

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