Irises forum: Regeliocyclus iris

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Name: Evelyn
Northern CA Sierra foothills - (Zone 8a)
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evelyninthegarden
Dec 12, 2018 12:07 AM CST
I have a question about this iris. On the John Scheepers website, they say to plant it 5" deep. Isn't this a aril? Should it be buried like that?

If anyone here has firsthand experience with this iris, I would appreciate it very much.
Thank you.

“It was one of those March days when the sun shines hot and the wind blows cold, when it is summer in the light and winter in the shade.” ~Charles Dickens
[Last edited by evelyninthegarden - Dec 12, 2018 1:27 AM (+)]
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Name: Tienito
Rhode Island (Zone 6b)
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Tienito
Dec 12, 2018 9:37 AM CST
This must be Dardanus? John Scheepers is where I got my rhizomes three years ago. I don't plant it that deep at all. Over rich soil amended with composted manure and slaked lime, I put down two inches of coarse sand - I place the rhizomes on top of this sand then cover with another two inches of sand. I grow them in containers and they have done very well for me, but it took a couple of years for them to bloom. I hope they bloom again this spring - the blossoms really are stunning - then I'll have to divide them as the pots are getting crowded.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
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ShawnSteve
Dec 12, 2018 10:36 AM CST
Hi. Are you speaking of species that used to be called Aril, Iris? I used to have some beautiful species many years & had no clue about them at all. They were sold by Van Bourgondien's up until about 1990, then suddenly stopped likely due to CITES regulations, for endangered species.. (Even though likely grown in Holland in greenhouses) I think the common name for one, was 'Mourning Iris' & wow was it stunning. Flowered, by bringing indoors for winter, actually, as it is a really true 'cool season'' grower...I grew them in pots, but used sandy soil as noted by the previous poster, but added white marble chips mixed in near the strange roots, with a layer at the bottom of the pot & also above the roots to aid with drainage. I do believe they originate from areas near Syria, where they grow wild. (Required fairly dry soil in summer, too, as would go dormant) My last one didn't have just quite enough protection from summer thunderstorm downpours, as I had recently moved to a new location...
Some years ago, I wanted to try again, but they were mostly hybrids, grown & offered by an individual gardener in PA. Maybe they offered seeds, from a group like NARGS, except the list of seeds offered were of Iris ...I think he mostly covered his outdoors in winter, with a raised panel ( of plexiglass ?) to help keep them from getting covered by snow in winter & then avoid subsequent rotting. Others were up near the foundation & protected by the eaves overhang, possibly.
I have seen Aril hybrids offered on the web, & they can be really something else, with astounding blooms. As for 'Dardanus', it just didn't do well, as in Spring it would get going, then act like it was about to bloom & suddenly want to go dormant. The flowers of the hybrids roots I saw shown online may have been offered by a commercial grower in Texas.
Name: Evelyn
Northern CA Sierra foothills - (Zone 8a)
Region: United States of America Region: California Annuals Bulbs Butterflies Cat Lover
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evelyninthegarden
Dec 12, 2018 12:22 PM CST
Tienito said:This must be Dardanus? John Scheepers is where I got my rhizomes three years ago. I don't plant it that deep at all. Over rich soil amended with composted manure and slaked lime, I put down two inches of coarse sand - I place the rhizomes on top of this sand then cover with another two inches of sand. I grow them in containers and they have done very well for me, but it took a couple of years for them to bloom. I hope they bloom again this spring - the blossoms really are stunning - then I'll have to divide them as the pots are getting crowded.


Yes, Iris Regeliocyclus 'Dardanus'! Why would the website give instructions to plant the rhizome so deep? I am more than annoyed! Grumbling I will dig them up and plant them according to your instructions!


“It was one of those March days when the sun shines hot and the wind blows cold, when it is summer in the light and winter in the shade.” ~Charles Dickens
[Last edited by evelyninthegarden - Dec 13, 2018 10:14 PM (+)]
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Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
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ShawnSteve
Dec 12, 2018 3:42 PM CST
Hi evelyn I didn't have to plant 'Dardanus' anywhere nearly that deeply.. I can't explain the reason, unless it is to keep the root (not the roots that grow from it, per say) from freezing in colder zones. I have some idea what your climate is like, as I lived in the San Joaquin Valley, as a child.... I would pot it up & store in the garage & near a window, if possible. If planted shallow, then you will see when it has actually started to grow, then slowly acclimate outdoors. Then you have a better chance of flowers, before heat tends to send it into dormancy. But maybe at that depth, helps keep the root cool enough into spring, to allow flowers, before dormancy? hth
Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
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Polymerous
Dec 12, 2018 10:29 PM CST
I read that as "religious cycle iris" Blinking .

(Very little sleep last night...)
A 'Premonition of Spring' - PCI time already?!
Name: Evelyn
Northern CA Sierra foothills - (Zone 8a)
Region: United States of America Region: California Annuals Bulbs Butterflies Cat Lover
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evelyninthegarden
Dec 12, 2018 10:42 PM CST
Ahh, Marilyn! I hope you sleep better tonight. Group hug

“It was one of those March days when the sun shines hot and the wind blows cold, when it is summer in the light and winter in the shade.” ~Charles Dickens
Name: Monty Riggles
Henry County, Virginia (Zone 7a)
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UndyingLight
Dec 13, 2018 2:13 AM CST
Sigh. I was in the same boat with you, Marilyn.

Good luck with these hard-to-pronounce irises, Evelyn!
One of our Bantam Rhode Island Reds stares intently at me. She is our little protector of our littles in the background!

Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes you have to hold on tight to what you love. Hold onto your friends and family as you will never know the last time you will see them.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
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ShawnSteve
Dec 14, 2018 11:16 AM CST
I think they are (were?) called Aril bred (hybrids, obviously) Iris. I don't know how easily it is accomplished, but some of the results are rather excellent. If you are interested to see how nice some of these hybrid blooms appear, you might try to find the rhizomes offered online. If you locate a source, check out the photos, or simply use the term 'Aril bred Iris' in a search of Google images.
Name: Evelyn
Northern CA Sierra foothills - (Zone 8a)
Region: United States of America Region: California Annuals Bulbs Butterflies Cat Lover
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evelyninthegarden
Dec 14, 2018 1:47 PM CST
Our database lists this iris as aril, since it is not bred with bearded iris.



I have read that if an iris is called Regeliocyclus, the pod parent is Regelia, and the pollen parent is Oncocyclus. They are both arils. It is hard to find more information regarding the specific culture of this hybrid aril.

@IrisLilli maybe you have some hints. I see yours sitting on top of the soil. Does it stay out in the winter rain?




“It was one of those March days when the sun shines hot and the wind blows cold, when it is summer in the light and winter in the shade.” ~Charles Dickens
Name: Tienito
Rhode Island (Zone 6b)
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Tienito
Dec 14, 2018 10:11 PM CST
ShawnSteve said:But maybe at that depth, helps keep the root cool enough into spring, to allow flowers, before dormancy?


That's interesting! I have noticed that they go dormant immediately after blooming. It seems that their window for growing and blooming in the spring is very short.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
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ShawnSteve
Dec 15, 2018 12:24 AM CST
@evelyninthegarden. I mentioned hybrid 'Aril- bred', in an attempt to explain the hybridization with standard Iris. But, because the way Regeliocyclus is spelled, indicates it is a hybrid between 'sections' within the group, classified together, from Eastern Mediterranean, into the Caucasus of Asia & other rather dry areas.. The last part, being a name ; 'Dardanus', meaning it is a culitvar...
Going back 30 years ago, I recall what the roots looked like of 'Mourning Iris'. May have been called species Susianus, back then ? That is an Iris in the section Oncocyclus, I believe. Then supposedly an Iris plant from the section Regelio-...One was pollinated with the other & a hybrid was grown from the resulting Aril form of seed.
That rhizomatous-root actually looks almost more like a cross with a bearded Iris! That is to say, it appears more like the typical rhizome of bearded.... But since the claim is the crossed were the Regelio... x Oncocyclus, which appear more like a clumpthe smaller root portion where only the leaves arise from. The Onco, I had of these wild Iris species (had tightly clumped, groups of leaves sprouting closely together,, ) Within those numerous 'sections', they actually grow in quite different areas, from rather vast distance apart!
See Pacific Bulb Society webpage regarding this subject. What the Aril Iris do share most in common & why they are grouped together, was, I think the seeds & a basal blotch on the falls of the petals, (with noticeably pronounced veining, in my opinion) Nothing like English Iris bulbs, nor those early spring flowering tiny ones, either..... I don't give these plants names. That is by a book of Botanical Nomenclature, done by a Committee.
Lastly, due to the fact they can be hyridized, even with typical standard Iris, or those classified within the Aril sections, doesn't necessarily make 'Dardanus', a 'species'. found in nature.
Hope this helps. Shawn (lacking sleep) Glare
Name: Lilli
Lundby, Denmark, EU
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IrisLilli
Dec 15, 2018 1:38 PM CST
Evelyn, I keep my pottet Dardanus outside but under a roof during winter. Winters here are rarely very cold, but they are very wet. I don't remember seeing it after the move, so I'm not sure if I still have it... Crossing Fingers!
You don't know if it will grow until you try!
Russia (Zone 6b)
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Serjio
Dec 19, 2018 7:10 AM CST
I will try to write in English nomenclature, which I found in Russian sources. The term "Aryl" refers to species iris group of Oncocyclus and groups Regelios and to hybrids of both within these groups and between them. The term "arilbred" refers to hybrids between Aril and any other bearded irises. Oncocyclus irises and irises Regelios also look different from each other, but, nevertheless, United in one group because they all have one common characteristic feature – the presence of seeds Express a lighter color arillusom.
In turn, arily and arilbred have their own split into sub-groups. Aryls (denoted as "A") are divided into:
1. Species Oncocyclus (O) – is selected clones was named as cultivars;
2. Hybrid Oncocyclus (OH) – hybrids obtained from the crosses between any species of Oncocyclus or hybrid Oncocyclus or species Oncocyclus hybrid;
3. Species Regelios (R) is a selected clone was named as cultivars;
4. Regelia hybrid (RH) hybrids obtained from the crosses between any species Regelii or hybrid Regelios or species Regelii hybrid;
5. Regeliocyclus (RC) – hybrids between Regelios and Oncocyclus , more like Regelii on the phenotype and are usually derived from crosses between:
– species or hybrid Regelios and species or hybrid Oncocyclus;
– Regeliocyclus and species or hybrid Regelios;
two Regeliocyclus;
– oncogenes and species or hybrid regeliae;
6. Oncogelios (OG) - hybrids between Oncocyclus and Regelios, more like Oncocyclus on the phenotype and are usually derived from crosses between:
– species or hybrid Oncocyclus and Regeliocyclus;
two Oncogelios;
– Oncogelios and species or hybrid Oncocyclus.
Name: Evelyn
Northern CA Sierra foothills - (Zone 8a)
Region: United States of America Region: California Annuals Bulbs Butterflies Cat Lover
Foliage Fan Irises Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Vegetable Grower
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evelyninthegarden
Dec 20, 2018 1:06 PM CST
Even though I dug them up and potted them in sand over well-draining potting soil, I may already have killed them previously. They were in the spare refrigerator with the bulbs to be planted. I should have put them in the shed dry. (20/20 hindsight!) So...it will be a miracle if they grow at all. The rhizomes are very small, too. I have been putting them in the shed when anticipating rain or snow in the forecast.

There is very little accurate culture information regarding this interspecific cross.

“It was one of those March days when the sun shines hot and the wind blows cold, when it is summer in the light and winter in the shade.” ~Charles Dickens
Russia (Zone 6b)
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Serjio
Dec 20, 2018 2:31 PM CST
evelyninthegarden said:Even though I dug them up and potted them in sand over well-draining potting soil, I may already have killed them previously. They were in the spare refrigerator with the bulbs to be planted. I should have put them in the shed dry. (20/20 hindsight!) So...it will be a miracle if they grow at all. The rhizomes are very small, too. I have been putting them in the shed when anticipating rain or snow in the forecast.

There is very little accurate culture information regarding this interspecific cross.


about Oncocyclus and Regelios I know they are difficult to grow in culture.. They need sandy soil with good drainage, and moderate moisture during growth in spring and autumn. Summer should be hot and dry. In our area, they are covered with glass in the summer or dig up the rhizome, put in the sand and sent to the attic for a few months, where it is hot and dry. I suppose that hibernation should also be free of excess moisture.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
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ShawnSteve
Dec 20, 2018 3:13 PM CST
@Serjio Hi, that was very kind of you to explain.
@Evelyn Sorry to read about your possible mishap. The 'Mourning Iris that I had, was suppsedly susianus. Susy, apparently being Arabic for Iris. I found a photo in Google, besides seeing a book printed in 1997 The Growing of Species Iris, identification & Cultivation ( or something similar in Title) Near page 97 or thereabouts, it describes that susiana had possibly been in cultivation, since 1573. I just went by susiana, as that was what it was sold as & compared it to old antique flower prints of 'Mourning Iris, I therefore assumed, it was as sold, named & shown, (even in bloom to see it myself...).The book may be helpful.
As Serjio mentioned, the watering of these summer dormant Iris, during summer time, can be fatal.
Name: Evelyn
Northern CA Sierra foothills - (Zone 8a)
Region: United States of America Region: California Annuals Bulbs Butterflies Cat Lover
Foliage Fan Irises Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Vegetable Grower
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evelyninthegarden
Dec 20, 2018 11:10 PM CST
Serjio said:bout Oncocyclus and Regelios .I know they are difficult to grow in culture..They need sandy soil with good drainage, and moderate moisture during growth in spring and autumn. Summer should be hot and dry. In our area, they are covered with glass in the summer or dig up the rhizome, put in the sand and sent to the attic for a few months, where it is hot and dry. I suppose that hibernation should also be free of excess moisture.


I have hot dry summers with no rain. That part would be easy, if I haven't already killed them! It is cold and damp right now.


“It was one of those March days when the sun shines hot and the wind blows cold, when it is summer in the light and winter in the shade.” ~Charles Dickens

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