Plant ID forum→What are the two tall trees?

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Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
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Paul2032
Dec 18, 2018 7:15 PM CST


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Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Dec 18, 2018 7:53 PM CST
I don't suppose you have closer photos? Or cones? Where are the trees located?

My first thought was Alaskan Cedar but, if the trees are in Utah, some type of Spruce.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Frank Richards
Clinton, Michigan (Zone 5b)

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frankrichards16
Dec 18, 2018 9:06 PM CST
they do look like Picea abies of some kind
Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
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Henhouse
Dec 18, 2018 10:43 PM CST
Are the needles prickly or soft? They look something like a deodar cedar, Cedrus deodora.. but I'd think they'd be wider at the base, if so... My first thought was also Alaskan Cedar, but it looks more like needles than fern-like.. As Daisy said, a close of of the foliage would be helpful..
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Dec 18, 2018 10:45 PM CST
I was actually thinking something like Picea engelmannii.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
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Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
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Paul2032
Dec 19, 2018 8:04 AM CST
I'll go take some closer pictures and feel the branches and needles........
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Dec 19, 2018 11:09 AM CST
And look for cones...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
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Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
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ViburnumValley
Dec 21, 2018 5:13 PM CST
I'd give the nod to Henhouse - those look distinctly like Cedrus deodara.
John
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Dec 21, 2018 10:49 PM CST
You won't find a Deodor Cedar in Zone 5.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
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Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
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ViburnumValley
Dec 23, 2018 1:09 PM CST
Hi Daisy:

I'll grant that you won't find one there very long...

Are we certain it is even in zone 5? Seeing where Paul lives, there are more than a couple nearby communities rated in zone 6a and 6b - and even one (West Valley City, UT) which rates an unbelievably balmy zone 7a. Put a big body of water nearby that doesn't freeze over, and you can get some interesting microclimates.

Way back in the day (for me, late '80s/early '90s) when a couple of selections of Cedrus deodara named 'Kashmir' and 'Shalimar' hit the local market, it was all the rage to plant these around the Ohio River valley region and elsewhere in colder zone 6/warmer zone 5 areas. As one might expect, they tolerated warmer winters when the average coldest temperature wasn't that low - but bit the dust when "real" (read: normal) winters struck.

People still plant -22F rated 'Bracken's Brown Beauty' Southern Magnolias in suburban Chicago, on the off-chance they'll luck out for a year or two. A very good plantsman friend continuously tried zone 5 rated Ilex opaca to no avail. Sometimes zone rating is not the only consideration.

I don't get to see many Cedrus sp. at all around here, outside of some older Cedrus libani var. stenocoma, so identifying those trees in that picture from my perch in central KY is a hazardous enterprise. Paul has not been overly generous yet with information as to growing location, aspect, age of plantings, or other details that might assist in categorically keeping in or out many species.

Closer images that define needle/leaf morphology will certainly be valuable, too.
John
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
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Paul2032
Dec 23, 2018 2:53 PM CST
Sorry I haven't responded sooner. No excuse. I'll get in my pickup and go for a ride and see if I can get better close-ups, feel the texture of the branches and needles and see if there are any cones. Zones are interesting. I grow about 70 HT Roses, do nothing for winter protection and have only lost one, John F. Kennedy, in a harsh winter.
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Dec 23, 2018 3:26 PM CST
@Paul2032 there is only a very small patch of zone 5b in your area according to this hardiness zone map. Is that where you are located?

https://www.plantmaps.com/8406...
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer Tomato Heads
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Paul2032
Dec 23, 2018 8:51 PM CST
Here are some more pictures which I took today.....
Thumb of 2018-12-24/Paul2032/40d2b2Needles and branches are stiff but not overly so.
Thumb of 2018-12-24/Paul2032/c52c76


Thumb of 2018-12-24/Paul2032/b8bcf5Bark is smooth and shiney


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Thumb of 2018-12-24/Paul2032/dc278fTree had only a few cones about the size of a mans finger.


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Thumb of 2018-12-24/Paul2032/84eace

Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
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ViburnumValley
Dec 24, 2018 8:01 AM CST
Certainly Cedrus species. Perhaps west coasters or conifer-ophiles can narrow down which one by the reproductive structures illustrated.

Paul could still provide some answers to the cultural/locational questions heretofore asked...
John
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Dec 24, 2018 11:00 AM CST
Yes, I agree, it is Cedrus. @Paul2032, we need a location. That really does look like a Deodar Cedar. I can't think of any other choices but these tree have been there long enough to have cones so are mature trees. But a Deodar wouldn't survive in Zone 5.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer Tomato Heads
Garden Photography Birds Cut Flowers Foliage Fan Houseplants Tender Perennials
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Paul2032
Dec 24, 2018 12:18 PM CST
The trees are in Manila, Utah which is a small town bordering to the north of Pleasant Grove, another small town. They are planted on the east of the old barn. I have seen others in different situations in my area. To me zones are confusing. We sometimes have winters where the temps rarely get into the low teens. Below O is a rare occurrence. Thanks everyone for the interest you have shown......
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Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
[Last edited by Paul2032 - Dec 24, 2018 12:20 PM (+)]
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Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer Tomato Heads
Garden Photography Birds Cut Flowers Foliage Fan Houseplants Tender Perennials
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Paul2032
Dec 24, 2018 12:31 PM CST
An article on google indicates the varieties Kashmir, Shalimar, and Polar King are hardy in zone 6.
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Irises Keeper of Poultry Roses Dragonflies Birds
Bulbs Foliage Fan Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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Henhouse
Dec 24, 2018 2:36 PM CST
Another possibility... I've only seen older specimens of Cedrus libani- Cedar of lebanon.. so I'm not familiar with how a young one would look., but I've read they they are the hardiest of the Cedars.

i did find this interesting discussion on Cedars:
https://forums.botanicalgarden...
The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Dec 24, 2018 3:04 PM CST
According to the hardiness zone map Manila, Utah, is somewhere between 4a and 5b:

https://www.plantmaps.com/8404...
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Dec 24, 2018 3:24 PM CST
NGA Zone look up says 5b - 6b.

The bigger problem is that Cedrus sp. look too much alike to tell from photos which tree it could be. Even C. libani would pushing the limits of hardiness in that area, which ever the zone (4, 5, 6).

Maybe we should leave it at its a cedar tree (Cedrus sp.)...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org

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