Sandy soil that turns into concrete needs amendments. What to use? Its killing my plants.

It sounds to me like your soil has a lot of clay in it. If so, that would bake in the sun after being moistened turning it into a very hard, concrete like soil. You would have to break it up by turning it over by hand or by using a roto tiller. Those can be purchased or rented in various sizes. You can till the soil say to 4", 6", 12" deep depending upon what you wanted to plant long term.
Then it would be a matter of establishing flower beds or planting areas and use something like gravel, mulch or woodchips to keep the soil from compacting again as quickly.

Depending upon how much soil or area we are talking about, you can always add sand, the orange builder's sand. and mix it in with the clay in order to open it up a bit so it drains better and doesn't compact as much. But that could prove very expensive.
But these are very general ideas because I, and anyone else who comes to offer advice, we have no idea of where you live. This could help us to provide you with even better advice.

Compost compost compost. Oh, and some more compost.

Hi & welcome! Are you talking about ground gardening?

Sand mixed with clay makes adobe--as in bricks. Like NMOasis says--more compost! Maybe a bit of manure.
Don't give up!

When I lived in the Atlanta area, I used perlite to break up heavy, red clay. It worked and it stayed working for quite a while.

Igiveup said: Sandy soil that turns into concrete needs amendments. What to use? Its killing my plants.

Agree with compost... Spread on top of planting bed, sow seed on top of or directly in the compost, or plant stuff through the top dressing of compost.
When I plant the compost, it prevents the sand from crusting.

sandy soil is very fast draining and never compacts, you know what the beach feels like, right? clay soil holds water and clumps into hard masses, like little hard bricks when it eventually dries. i think you might have misidentified what's wrong.

all soil benefits from compost, which is relatively expensive and will not fix soil that is either too sandy or too clay. if you stack enough pricy compost on top, it might work out this year but it's very expensive, not at all needed in those quantities, and in a year or two will breakdown and leave you with the same problem you started with.

if you dig up soil and your shovel has heavy hard clumps, you have too much clay, and should mix in sand.

if you truly have sandy soil, if you dig when dry, it should pour off your spade like, well, like sand.. dry sand at the beach. it doesn't compact.. that's why you made sandcastles out of wet sand within feet of the ocean.

it's always a good idea to add compost, but it isn't always necessary and it's definitely not a one stop solution unless you'll deliver deep enough every year to ignore native soil.

We need more information and photos from @IgiveUp to help determine the soil type, but this question is three weeks old and s/he hasn't returned so we can't move forward with specifics.

However @BullyMamma since you've added two posts to object to adding compost to sandy soil, I'm wondering what you would recommend to amend sandy soil or other soil as described in the original question?

Different soil types:
https://ucanr.edu/sites/Kern22...

How to deal with sandy soil
https://extension.usu.edu/yard...

BullysMamma said: sandy soil is very fast draining and never compacts, you know what the beach feels like, right?

clay soil holds water and clumps into hard masses, like little hard bricks when it eventually dries. i think you might have misidentified what's wrong.

all soil benefits from compost, which is relatively expensive and will not fix soil that is either too sandy or too clay.

if you stack enough pricy compost on top, it might work out this year but it's very expensive, not at all needed in those quantities, and in a year or two will breakdown and leave you with the same problem you started with.

I would invite you to come down here...

In a drought, that sand gets every bit as impenetrable as clay.

Rather than digging in beach sand... I would recommend heading out west and try digging in the desert.

Most of us save every least particle of organic material.
Whether I turn the compost or just ignore it... it makes good free compost.

If you aren't composting... Suggest that you get started!

At my previous garden where I had pockets of kaolin and other sticky clays... Adding truckloads of horse poop made some wonderful gardening.

Maybe gardening really is different in NYC... But... Everywhere that I've gardened, compost / manure made ALL the difference.

Hi, as NMoasis knows, I'm trying to help a daylily grower in Alabama who has run into problems with nutrient imbalances due primarily to past inappropriate additives of the kind too often pushed by garden writers, such as 8-8-8 fertilizer. The scapes are severely stunted. Only 6" tall, barely out of the ground.

The soil is described as sandy, and the low CEC (8.7) and organic matter (C:N 10) are consistent with that. Also sandy loams or loamy sands are the typical topsoils in her area of Alabama. The pH is 5.8 in the beds of concern and that is suitable for the daylilies in them. Right now I am not considering raising the pH because the phosphorus level is too high. The lower pH keeps it less soluble. The high phosphorus in turn is helping to reduce availability of copper and zinc which are also too high.

I think that raising the organic matter would be one of the best steps to improving her soil, together with appropriate fertilizers to rebalance as much as possible for now. What kinds of appropriate organic matter are available in southern states at budget prices? Here, people can often obtain ground leaves and grass clippings freely if they don't have a source of adequate OM on their property.

She does not have the resources to buy finished compost. Her garden does not produce adequate weeds or dead tops etc to do composting, although I will certainly encourage her to use whatever she can accumulate (including kitchen vegetable sources) if she has a place to put it to decompose. At any rate, that's for the future. The beds need improvement as soon as possible.

I would like to recommend an organic material that could be spread on top her soil and lightly hoed in which would then decompose and be carried into the soil by natural processes because she can't dig it in.

Alfalfa pellets were one possibility I considered. They seem to be fairly expensive to apply at an adequate rate, though. Chopped alfalfa hay is more affordable. I don't know yet if it's acceptable aesthetically. I've even considered that plain straw would be better than nothing (I'd suggest that she spray it with fertilizer to speed up decomposition). Are there other materials available in the South that gardeners use?

I suggested planting a winter cover crop of rye mixed with crimson clover for the dual purposes of 1) phytoextracting some of the excess copper and zinc by harvesting the tops in spring, while 2) leaving the roots left behind would add OM as well as improving the filth. She is not sure she can do this (physical limitations).

Thanks for any information! If you are curious about the situation, the rather contradictory results from her daylily tissue and daylily bed soil tests are below.

Pat

Daylilies are not happy in the sand at my house.
They grew very well in the clay... Once moved to the new location... most died.
Not real sure there's a fix here.

Very sorry to hear that Stone but thanks for the reply! 👍🏻We usually figure daylilies will tolerate / survive just about any soil.

I looked up Macon, Georgia soil type and if yours is the common type of sandy soil there it would evidently be in Coastal Plains soil type which is the same as the daylily grower in Alabama. Except, she had soil brought in which she said is also sandy but perhaps it was an amended version.

This article about the wide diversity of soils in Macon County and plant selections for each looks interesting. I've never seen one like it for a city & county. Probably helpful for new gardeners and homeowners there.

https://www.aces.edu/blog/topi...

Pat

This sounds like a lot of fuss for some daylilies, too much. They're pretty, no argument there, but they're not a requirement to have some pretty flowers growing. There are so many other kinds of beautiful flowers. I would find something that does grow well and enjoy the lemonade that has been made.

way too much work for day lilies. If it's that much of an issue I'd grow them in containers so I could control the soil.

Hortaholic said: Very sorry to hear that Stone but thanks for the reply! 👍🏻We usually figure daylilies will tolerate / survive just about any soil.

I looked up Macon, Georgia soil type and if yours is the common type of sandy soil there it would evidently be in Coastal Plains soil type which is the same as the daylily grower in Alabama. Except, she had soil brought in which she said is also sandy but perhaps it was an amended version.

This article about the wide diversity of soils in Macon County and plant selections for each looks interesting. I've never seen one like it for a city & county. Probably helpful for new gardeners and homeowners there.

https://www.aces.edu/blog/topi...

Pat

Surprisingly, Macon is not in Macon county.
I'm not actually in Macon... I'm in the sandhills 40 or 50 miles away...

Sand dunes left from an Eocene era beach...
https://denix.osd.mil/cr/histo...

That "topsoil" people have brought in... is ALWAYS worse than the existing soil.

Quite honestly... I have to agree with Tiffany... Plenty of nice flowers will grow here... just not daylilies.

If we had some idea of what your friend's circumstances were... (in town, out in the boonies, or something else), we could advise.

I have a garden pool with a liner... some daylilies on top of the liner above the water line... They are perfectly happy... But, those liners don't come cheap.

Hortaholic was referencing this very involved thread

https://garden.org/thread/go/1...

Although it started because of the daylily issue, it became a challenging mystery about conflicting soil and plant tissue tests and the effects of excessive copper. Interesting, only marginally related to the issue in this thread, and we started haven't heard from our original poster!

Sheridragonfly said: I contacted an extention agent and then they have sent the pictures of my daylilies with the buds basically in the ground poking out and trying to open their blooms
are now forwarded to a plant
pathologist at a university last week for his opinion.

First the agent asked did you use copper sulfate
to spray them last year for rust prevention
I hung my head as I heard that question asked of me on the phone..YES.

so while I am waiting...for the plant pathologist to answer my letter

I researched copper sulfate to see if it stays in the soil for years and if it will cause stunting and bud deformity for years to come in these
once striking and beautiful tall blooming daylilies?

It is possible that the plant DNA or a better word for it
has been altered by the copper sulfate..

I am not a plant pathologist...but I do have common
sense and a curiosity as to why something happened to my adored and valuable plants.

I can never remove that much soil two foot down in two daylily flower beds if the copper sulfate will be in that soil and cause problems for years to come in any perennial that would be replanted in those two flower beds...

nor pay for those plants again...

nor the labor physical..

Here is what they used to look like before copper sulfate sprayed twice a month and measured in water correctly by me.
Here are stunted plants with lots of buds growing out of the dirt...and flowers opening at ground level and crowded and not able to open because they are not on a scape or stem..

All were 34 inches tall and most up to 38 inch blooming daylilies..

you will see pictures of how they looked before last year.

Ok...
As you said Zoe, doesn't seem to be especially relevant to this thread.