Hi, our plumeria tree started looking really bad lately , we live in a very hot climate and now it's middle of summer (40+ C) and it's an outdoor plumeria. The leaves starting yellowing and browning first, the flower buds stopped blooming and also just drop, and now the leaves are started to look droopy. How can we save this plant :(

Is it in a container?

It looks like its suffering extreme heat stress coupled with humidity that is too low. It needs #1 more water and #2 if you can move it into less full sun it might help

Kevalsha said: Is it in a container?

Yes

Gina1960 said: It looks like its suffering extreme heat stress coupled with humidity that is too low. It needs #1 more water and #2 if you can move it into less full sun it might help

We always try to make sure the soil isn't dry and regularly water. We moved it under the shade couple of days ago doesn't look any better yet. We have mostly higher humidity most days so not sure . The sun define burned it tho as Uv is very high. Do you have any other suggestions?

Make sure you don't have a spider mite infestation

@LeenaY Please provide an image of the plant and pot it's in.
* How long have you had the pot?
* How deep is the pot?
* How do you determine when it's time to water?
* Do you water while you can still detect moisture in the grow medium with a finger?
* Does the pot have a drain hole?
While under-watering should remain a suspect, it's far more likely you're over-watering. If the pot is over 10" deep, and you're using your digital device (finger) to check for moisture levels, the finger can say dry while the bottom 6" (or more) of the soil column is still 100% saturated. You can determine appropriate watering intervals easily and precisely by using a wooden "tell" to tell you what moisture levels are deep in the pot where it matters most and when it's time to water. If root rot is not the overarching issue at this point, it might be what's needed to reverse the plant's decline.

If the plant was wilting while you could still readily detect moisture in the medium, you were/are over-watering. If the plant wilts and recovers soon after a good watering, you're under-watering. Another clue you might be over-watering is when a plant wilts during the day but recovers at least somewhat when the plant enters the dark cycle. The mechanism at work: Too much water causes wilting due to inability to move enough water to prevent loss of turgidity. During the dark cycle, small openings in leaves (stomata) close, which limits transpirational water loss, allowing the plant to recover some or all of its turgidity.

I also suggest you look for mites and scale infestations. Plants suffering from environmental/cultural stressors are limited in their ability to resist insect herbivory and disease pathogens.

Al

One note: its pretty much impossible to overwater a plumeria in the conditions you are growing in. 40+C in a desert climate, it will pretty much soak up whatever you give it, we are talking 104F plus. Your plant shows every sign of extreme heat stress. It hasn't;t been that hot here in Florida yet, and out climate is very HUMID which yours is a desert climate, if I am correct? The dry heat is going to take a big toll on a plumeria

@drdawg, what do you think?

That just isn't so. Plants regularly die of thirst, even while roots are awash in a sea of plenty; this, because the lack of oxygen that accompanies over-watering limits uptake of both water and nutrients. This in turn sets up a cycle whereby foliage wilts due to excess water retained in the grow medium. Since the lack of oxygen means limited water uptake, water in the rhizosphere is used at significantly decreased rate, which means that the primary reduction in water retention comes from evaporation which depends on how the grow medium is structured. When media are naturally water-retentive particles are small, compaction occurs, which limits gas exchange and the potential for evaporative water loss. When wilting persists, the most common reflex is to water more, which compounds the problem.

We'll know more after @LeenaY answers the questions; and, she already has the information needed to determine whether she is over or under-watering. This could even be a case where high temperatures have killed a notable fraction of the plant's roots, which at least to this point keeps over-watering one of the top contenders as causal. Better to wait until all the information is available before we start eliminating potential causes.
Al

I've stated this dozens of time, Gina, but I'll say it again. In hot conditions, with potting soil that is well-draining, and of course, having the necessary drainage holes in the pot, overwatering is virtually an impossibility. We who grow plumeria in the Deep South, and even though we have unrelenting high humidity here (the relative humidity is a whopping 95% at this very moment), still depend on adequate rain/watering to keep our plumeria healthy. @LeenaY, my diagnosis is dehydration and heat stress.........which go hand-in-hand. @tapla, even with our high humidity, and though our high temperatures here are (only) in the low 90's, I have to water all my potted plumeria almost daily. Growing plumeria in SE Florida and growing them in a temperate climate such as you have, is night and day different. I know this. I grew plumeria in northern Mississippi for 25 years and now grow them in southern Florida (5 years).

@LeenaY, I agree with Gina. Move your plumeria so that it/they are getting shade from about 11:00 AM until about 4:00 PM. Do your best to keep the potting soil slightly moist, but never soggy. The proper media will assure you of not having soggy soil. Plumeria are tropicals, not succulents or cacti, and though I've got lots of customers that grow them in desert conditions (southwest USA), they devise ways to increase the humidity around their tropicals. A mister placed strategically, can do this for you. There are other ways to increase humidity as well. Recovery will take weeks, so you'll have to be patient.

I think you guys are drawing conclusions without enough information to support them. I realize it's easy to imagine a set of circumstances that would lead to someone concluding the issue is under-watering, but there is nothing in what the OP offered that allows us to make that conclusion. Just because it's hot or a desert setting doesn't mean the issues aren't related to issues brought on by soil compaction, excessive water retention. How did we imagine ourselves out of the possibility the grow medium is sand and very water-retentive, and or a large fraction of the roots have been killed by heat or rot pathogens and water usage has dropped precipitously while watering habits have remained consistent.

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, that remains to be seen; but I am saying there isn't enough information to discount what I said - that over-watering and/or related issues (root rot, anaerobic conditions in the rhizosphere, root die-off, ....) cannot be logically eliminated from the list of potential causes until we have more information.

The question is, how do we get from "a plant is wilted and and it's located in the desert" to "it's not being watered enough"? That's like starting at "Uncle Ted was scratched by a cat last Thursday. Friday, he came down with a fever, and on Saturday he died", and concluding "Uncle Ted died from cat-scratch fever." Jumping to the conclusion in either case, based on info currently available, is coincidental correlation, a logical fallacy.

Hopefully, Leena will come up with some answers and we'll be able to use the information to test the theories.

Al

Thanks everyone for all the responses. First of all, just clarify the extent of the weather right now. We live in Dubai and I said it's 40C+ but it can be 50C+ these days😅. We thought right away that the heat did all the damage because at around the same time all of our outdoor plants got really dry and yellow (we have some hibiscus & bougainvillea).

So to answer the questions:
*The pot is 35cm wide and 30cm deep, it has drainage holes.
*we got the trees around Feb/ Mar this year.
*My mom takes takes care of the plants, and she said she checks the soil with her finger, and once it feels dry she will water the trees. (She'll water it everyday/ or every other day depending on the temperature).

tapla said: I think you guys are drawing conclusions without enough information to support them. I realize it's easy to imagine a set of circumstances that would lead to someone concluding the issue is under-watering, but there is nothing in what the OP offered that allows us to make that conclusion. Just because it's hot or a desert setting doesn't mean the issues aren't related to issues brought on by soil compaction, excessive water retention. How did we imagine ourselves out of the possibility the grow medium is sand and very water-retentive, and or a large fraction of the roots have been killed by heat or rot pathogens and water usage has dropped precipitously while watering habits have remained consistent.

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, that remains to be seen; but I am saying there isn't enough information to discount what I said - that over-watering and/or related issues (root rot, anaerobic conditions in the rhizosphere, root die-off, ....) cannot be logically eliminated from the list of potential causes until we have more information.

The question is, how do we get from "a plant is wilted and and it's located in the desert" to "it's not being watered enough"? That's like starting at "Uncle Ted was scratched by a cat last Thursday. Friday, he came down with a fever, and on Saturday he died", and concluding "Uncle Ted died from cat-scratch fever." Jumping to the conclusion in either case, based on info currently available, is coincidental correlation, a logical fallacy.

Hopefully, Leena will come up with some answers and we'll be able to use the information to test the theories.

Al

I'd just like to know this. When was the last time you grew a plumeria tree, Al? Or any aroids? Or anything other than bonsai and plants that will grow in you yard in whatever cold zone you live in?
You are forever giving this generic blanket advice on horticulture about plants that I am willing to bet you have never grown yourself.
I usually do my best to ignore you. But in this case for this lady's plants, you are out of your area of 'expertise'. You should make it a personal policy to not give advice about things you don't grow. Especially tropical plants that need pretty specific conditions to thrive. My plumeria in Florida are all planted in the ground and guess what? My soil is all SAND. And it's not at all water retentive. You can hold a hose on the ground here for an hour and 10 minutes later dig up the spot and it will be bone dry. Plumeria in the ground here almost never suffer root rot or compromise specifically BECAUSE the soil is so well draining. I think it's unlikely the OP potted her plant in plain sand. And at temps between 40-50C, and looking at the leaf burn on the plant, it's sort of obvious to anyone who actually grows plumeria what the problem is

I've had my say, take it or leave it. I do have a bit of experience growing plumeria and many other tropicals, and though that experience has always been in the Deep South, I've grown them in temperate as well as subtropical conditions. I sort of chuckle when reading some comments. I wonder what experience growing tropicals some people have that do some of this commenting. I've logged over 50 years of this sort of growing, 1000's and 1000's of tropicals.

I couldn't agree with you more, Gina. My soil here in Vero Beach is just like yours. We got almost a half foot of rain a couple of days ago. All the low areas around the house (and the street) were literally under water. Fifteen minutes after the rain slowed, there was absolutely no evidence that we had "flooding". None. Sand and crushed shell is our basic "soil".

You guys do realize the plant is in a POT and water behaves much differently in containers than it does in mineral soils - right? Since Leena's mom cares for the plants, checks the soil with her finger, and waters when the top couple of inches of the soil is dry, watering it every day or every other day depending on the temperature, AND, the medium looks rather water retentive, it is very likely she is watering when there is still a significant volume of water remaining in the grow medium, which doesn't sound anything like under-watering. Leena's pot is about 12" deep, so the top 2" of grow medium can feel completely dry while the bottom 6-8" of the soil column could still be 100% saturated, especially if the medium is as water-retentive as it looks.

Additionally, we don't know if the home might have an ionic exchange water softener, or if a high TDS/EC level is in play, or low fertility which would also account for spoiled foliage, even use of a high phosphorous bloom booster fertilizer could account for the conspicuous symptoms.

@LeenaY If your mom's watering intervals are short enough that she is watering while she can still detect some moisture in the medium with a finger, there is almost no chance she is under-watering, and a very significant chance she is over-watering. Over-watering causes the same drought response as under-watering because the lack of oxygen in the rootzone (which accompanies over-watering) limits the plant's ability to take up and efficiently move water to the plant's distal parts, usually leaf tips and margins.

My suggestion would be to have your mom start using a wooden "tell" to monitor moisture levels deep in the pot. You might find she's watering at intervals too short, or even intervals too long, but at least you won't be jumping to a conclusion and ignoring other reasonable potential causes. What can you tell us about fertilizing? Does your home have a water softening system (ionic exchange) that uses salt as the exchange medium.

Using a "tell'
One of the most reliable methods of checking a planting's need for water is using a 'tell' (more reliable than a 'moisture meter'. You can use a bamboo skewer in a pinch, but a wooden dowel rod of about 5/16" (75-85mm) works better. They usually come 48" (120cm) long and can usually be cut in half or in several pieces, depending on how deep your pots are. Sharpen both ends of each tell in a pencil sharpener and slightly blunt the tip so it's about the diameter of the head on a straight pin. Push the wooden tell deep into the soil. Don't worry, it won't harm the root system. If the plant is quite root-bound, you might need to try several places until you find one where you can push it all the way to the pot's bottom. Leave it a few seconds, then withdraw it and inspect the tip for moisture. For most plantings, withhold water until the tell's tip comes out nearly dry. If you see signs of wilting, adjust the interval between waterings so drought stress isn't a recurring issue.

FWIW, I have grown plumeria, but not by choice. I was given trees by Laura Jones and the late Bud Guillot, both internationally known for their named varieties and personal contributions to the plumeria community. I also provided my dear friend Laura with several years of guidance re grow media, nutrition, and other cultural issues. I've also repotted (full repots) dozens of plumeria for others, family/ friends/ business associates.


I've been studying plant sciences and soil science for almost 50 years with a focus on sharpening my ability to maintain extremely healthy plants of all kinds in pots. Two things I learned early on are not to jump to conclusions, and one needn't be a bus driver to know what makes the wheels go 'round and 'round.
Al

My plumeria (many 1000's over a 30 yr. period) tell me when they want water. I find it amazing how people like Gina, Gigi, Elaine, Ursula, and I are so often dismissed as being somehow uneducated in the growing and propagation of tropical plants. I can assure anyone who cares to read this post, that our combination of education and experience totals well over 100 years. Books can't begin to teach what we've learned in all our years dealing with tropical plants.

And hey, we aren't long winded and condescending. A real plus

No one dismissed what you guys said. My contention was and still is that there was not enough information to logically conclude that the plant's decline could be caused by nothing other than under-watering. I still allow that under-watering and/or other cultural stress factors are still potential causes but more information is needed; however, it's beginning to look more and more like it is an over-watering or root function/health issue behind the decline.

Al

Experience is the greatest learning tool of them all. I certainly don't mean to lessen the importance of education. I've got a BS, MS, DDS, and another MS. I have the education. But I will admit, none of those degrees had a thing to do with horticulture. All my horticulture skills (if I have skills at all) came from reading some, chatting with experts in the field of orchids and plumeria, and simply doing the work, learning as I went. Believe me, I've probably made every mistake in the book, but I've always said that I learned more from my mistakes than I did from my successes. I truly believe this.