Roses forum: How can I force roses to break dormancy?

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Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
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CindiKS
May 20, 2012 5:58 PM CST
One of my roses from my Edmunds order-Whimsy, and one from the Palatine order-Orange Veranda- and 2 that I bought in body bags, (both Intrigue), have not yet broken dormancy. I know nurseries sweat them in the winter when they're growing them in a greenhouse, but why did all the rest grow without issues when these didn't? I planted 30 other bare root roses at the same time in the same areas, and they all look good. Some are already blooming.
What can I do to get them going? We've had sufficient heat and I have watered.
Do they need a fertilizer? A root stimulator? Cattle prod?
Pretty soon it will be too hot and windy here for young leaves to survive. They all have green canes and look alive, just no leaves or nubs.
Help?
Confused

Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
May 20, 2012 10:02 PM CST
I'd try the cattle prod. Seriously, I have no idea, here roses never really go dormant. Are they definitely alive?
Porkpal
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
May 21, 2012 8:53 AM CST
Don't know for sure they are alive. The canes are green. They were dormant because that's how they were shipped to me in March. After researching a bit more online, it looks like plants that are slow to break dormancy are weaker all summer.
If I dig Whimsy up, pot it, put it where I can mist it several times a day, and prune it again, I wonder if that would be enough of a jump start?
Next year, I'll pot up the bare roots and get them started indoors, keep them in the sunroom until the weather is suitable. Then, hopefully, my only issue will be insects.
I know this isn't an uncommon problem. What do others do? Just call for a refund?
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
May 21, 2012 9:37 AM CST
Cindi - I'm leaning also towards the cattle prod. I still haven't gotten any leaves on Summer Song, so I left Rahel w/Palatine a VM asking what I can do to poke some leaves out of it. I've got it buried so that only about 4" of canes are sticking out of the mulch and it only gets morning/noon sun w/shade in the hot hot afternoon. Probably like yours the canes are green & wiggly, not dead & brown. Frustrating, isn't it!

On a happy note, I know that my Lady X (bodybag) and Music Box (extreme pathetic "I've gotten better bodybag roses" from Edmunds) both have teensy little leaves on them. I doused them pretty good with some Age Old Fish & Seaweed, and that usually perks up everything (if stinks up everything, too).
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
May 22, 2012 2:58 PM CST
Register a third vote for the cattle prod.

What I notice in my garden is that places with the warmest soil grew roses fastest. In cooler areas, the roses are coming along much more slowly. If there's any life in them, I'd say keeping the ground moist together with the special sprinkling rites that Toni advocates might possibly help. Of course, you could have gotten defective roses.

I have a few that seem like they are starting very slowly. And one that seems completely dead for no apparent reason. One Marie Jeanne that I had taken for dead started setting leaves a week ago. So I guess it may not be time to give up hope completely.
[Last edited by Steve812 - May 22, 2012 3:01 PM (+)]
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Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
May 22, 2012 3:31 PM CST
Steve - I'd agree w/the cooler areas bring forth slower growth, but there's a rose not 2 ft from Summer Song from Palatine that's about to bloom next week I think. So the "defective rose" sounds more along the lines. Which is a shame. Sad I need to take pictures of Music Box to show how much it's progressed since I put it in (ie: almost none) Thumbs down
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
May 22, 2012 5:41 PM CST
My Music Box is one of the new bare roots that's already blooming. It's in a spot that gets late afternoon shade. The Whimsy is in full hot sun. Maybe it got too dry?
I talked to a friend who owns a nursery. She said one year, in a shipment from David Austin, she had one set of roses that never did break dormancy. I think they were all Strawberry Hill. She said sometimes they just go into too deep of sleep.
The weather forecast here is for extreme heat and wind (steady at 35-40) for the next several days, then possibly strong storms. This might be the time to dig it out, pot it up and treat with root hormone and superthrive. If I don't, and it decides to leaf out in the next few days, I'm sure it would dry out.

Don't know what got into me, but I bought 2 new hydrangeas this week. I need to find a way to protect them from the wind also. I would place chairs around them, but I don't have any chairs that can hold up in the wind! I've started buying concrete lawn furniture. I have to make brick patios to put the benches on so I don't have to trim around them, but after that I'll have something that doesn't end up in the neighbors yard day after day.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
May 23, 2012 3:23 PM CST
What a day. I dug out the poor Whimsy that won't leaf out, and mixed up peat moss, compost and potting soil. I trimmed back all the tiny canes and soaked the whole thing. Then, I mixed up a bucket of what daylily people call the "Hooker formula". It's water, epsom salts, miracle grow, superthrive, rooting hormone and fish emulsion. I added some soil moist crystals just for fun. Once I planted the rose in a 3 gallon pot, I poured the mix in. Boy does it stink. My dogs thought it was wonderful. I used the rest of the Hooker mix on annual combination planters. DIdn't get far with it, because a blue-black wasp of some sort stung me. I'm horribly allergic to some insect stings, so I have an epi pen in the house. The sting was one of the most painful ones I've ever had. Last time, the doctor said I would only get stung one more time...funny guy...looks like I survived. My arm swelled up and has a big purple area, but it didn't affect my breathing this time. My daughter was home from school so she mixed up baking soda and got poison control on the phone. We keep Benadryl handy too but in my near-panic I had forgotten to take it until the medics told me...duh.
We still have not identified the wasp. It was about 2" long, mostly black, little bit of iridescent cobalt blue. It didn't attack me. It was on my shirt and I didn't see it, and pressed my arm against it. Really don't know how it could fly in this wind. Anyone know what wasp it might be?
Tomorrow I'll get to follow up with the doc, hopefully won't have to do steroids. Terminex is coming in the afternoon but they use a pretty mild chemical because we keep bees (I know, it's like i have a death wish, isn't it) and we had a cockatoo in the house so that limits them. All the bee hives are on the far corner of the property and I have a bee suit for when I mow around them. They leave me alone for the most part.
Anyway I'm blaming the rose, thinking it must have a curse on it or something. Whistling
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
May 23, 2012 3:43 PM CST
Is this your wasp?

http://bugguide.net/images/raw/TRSQ3RHQFRXQFRMQR0U0ORKQWR50J...
http://www.whatsthatbug.com/2009/08/18/blue-mud-wasp-or-cric...
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
May 23, 2012 9:27 PM CST
Oh, my! I thought mud daubers didn't sting...
Porkpal
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
May 24, 2012 8:06 AM CST
Regular muddaubers sting like crazy. Not as evil as, say, hornets, but I get chased by mud daubers regularly here. I always have to leave my grill & smoker lids open so they don't build nests in them. I found that out the hard way last year.. opened the grill to turn it on & a whole schlue of pissed-off mud daubers chased me back into the house. Went into the garage, got my wasp & hornet killer out, and decided that, you mess with me, DIE!!! (not to mention I swell up like a balloon if I get stung).
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
[Last edited by Skiekitty - May 24, 2012 12:02 PM (+)]
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Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
May 24, 2012 11:38 AM CST
Our regular mud daubers are pretty docile. Our regular ones are larger than the one that stung me, and they are brown. i can work around them without issues. I followed your links, Toni, and now I'm pretty sure this was Sphex pennsylvanicus, a black wasp. Different sites said the sting is one of the most painful of all insect stings. Yep. It was. Today, a full 24 hours later, it is starting to swell and itch. One website noted that these wasps are important pollinators, and they really love mint. aaaaargh...I just planted mint in every combination planter! I bought 8 different flavors. The pots are right up next to the house by my comfortable reading chairs. Guess I'll be repotting some planters!
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
Image
Skiekitty
May 24, 2012 1:37 PM CST
Just got off the phone with Rachel at Palatine about my Summer Song. Explained how I planted SS, how I mulched, how often I water, how often I feed, what I feed with, blah blah blah. She, her mom, & her dad were at a complete loss as to why the rose is just sitting there like a lump on a log. I'm seriously thinking about moving that rose to more in the middle of the yard. I really didn't pay attention on the fact it's an Austin. I don't do well with Austins.. they don't do well for me. Rachel said that she doubts they'll be offering any Austins next year due to the fact that they're just not doing well for them either. I told her I'll keep her posted via email with pictures showing the rose w/the canes all alive, but with no leaves, once a month. She stated that if it failed, they'd be happy to replace it next year, though.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
May 26, 2012 11:12 AM CST
Interesting...

The Graham Thomas roses I got from Palatine are not growing either. It was a bit of a surprise because the plants I got from Palatine were massive and healthy. I bought three GTs: one is stone cold dead, two are growing very very slowly. It is rarely a problem of the English roses that I get from DA roses in Tyler TX. I cannot think of a single DA rose from them that failed - except for a Lady Emma Hamilton that I moved. And her replacement the next year that I didn't move.

I know you know all this, but ... As for moving it, I'd recommend against doing that until early spring. Moving roses in summer, especially ones with large root systems frequently causes really healthy roses to die, even when you are really really careful. That said, roses with root systems not so big as the head of a shovel will sometimes be amenable to being moved especially if they are taking a high-summer nap.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
Image
Skiekitty
May 26, 2012 11:29 AM CST
I took a peek last night & saw some new leaf "pimples"! I guess the Age Old Fish & Seaweed really did the trick!

http://www.ageoldorganics.com/products/liquid-fertilizers/

On a side note, it's no where near summer temperatures here right now. Had to wear a light jacket yesterday. When I was going into work, it was only 36 degs!!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
[Last edited by Skiekitty - May 26, 2012 11:54 AM (+)]
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Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
May 26, 2012 12:25 PM CST
Its so windy here today that it seems the leaves and flowers should blow right off the plants. Too breezy even to go outside. Winds 15-25 mph with gusts to 35 mph. Seems worse because it is cool, too. DW - who never sleeps - reports that it was much much windier last night. It's supposed to drop to near freezing tonight. Not good for the garden, but hopefully not disastrous.

Those look like good products, Toni. Clicked on 3 different retailers, got two page not found and one where I couldn't find any Age Old Organics products. Looks like all their distributors are in Colorado and Midwest. But I might try this. After the wind dies down.
[Last edited by Steve812 - May 26, 2012 12:25 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #263012 (16)
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
May 26, 2012 1:03 PM CST
Steve, that's the stinky stuff I used on my Whimsy when I dug it up and potted it. That's what I think attracted the wasp that nailed me.
I still have hope that my rose my leaf out. I had another that took over a month, but finally grew once I fed with fish emulsion and superthrive.
Cutting just an inch off each cane seems to stimulate them too.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

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