http://www.bbc.com/future/stor...

Interesting article, Rj. I just skimmed it but saved the link so I can give it some time to sink in. Thanks for posting.

JuniperAnn said:Esperanza, are you referring to Willie Soon, who's been denying anthropocentric global warming because Exxon Mobile, the American Petroleum Institute, and the Koch brothers' foundation gave him $1.25 million to do so? Because it seems like you have your facts a little backwards.

Nope. Never heard of him but I will look it up. Please know that I have and always will be a huge activist in environmental conservation. I'm just putting the electric universe into the mix.......Eww.... never thought I would ever have myself associated with the Koch brothers! That came out of nowhere

I don't know if it's appropriate to discuss other environmental issues here, but recycling efforts and waste streams are something we pay a lot of attention to.

Maine could be among first in U.S. to ban plastic bags statewide
https://www.pressherald.com/20...

Such stimulating conversation! I'm glad that Juniper brought up the question of population and the feminist movement. As the mother of four, only one chosen, but all loved, I've seen that women's choices have increased, at least in this country, since the '50's (when I was becoming a young woman). It's like walking on eggshells to talk about choice, because no one wants to offend those with religious beliefs, but women need to be able to have control of their bodies.
I cringe when I hear of women in the past giving birth to 13, 15,17 children! I'm sure that some put a positive spin on it, mothers usually love their babies, but the work involved in feeding and toileting that many children must have felt like slavery. And, if you like to read tombstones, it's evident that many women died in childbirth.
The planet can't support an unlimited increase in population. Particularly if every new child eventually wants an automobile !
So, I've made it a practice to acknowledge my friends and acquaintances who have either not had children by choice, or were unable to conceive. There is joy in having children, as well as work, but we have to love the planet as much as our children and grandchildren.

crawgarden said:http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190218-are-we-on-the-road-to-civilisation-collapse

Thank you for posting that link, crawgarden. A fascinating article.

Well said, Jan. And for those who can't conceive there are a tremendous number of children waiting to be adopted. I have 4 cousins that were adopted by some of my aunts and uncles that were in that position.

@McCannon I do believe, there are already biodegradable "plastic grocery bag" alternatives, already available. I think that "new law" just simply forces stores, to use the newer alternative....Although, I may or may not have mentioned before, I have seen many people here, use bags, from recycled plastics & even have seen one tote bag, made from hemp. People make a choice, to take various tote bags to the stores & use the same bags, over & over again...Usually, they are located, hanging on a rack, conveniently near the check out.

Fortunately, plastic bags in grocery stores have been banned. I remember the time when they switched over from paper to plastic, and thinking what a bad idea it was. Now look at the results.

I am inclined to believe the rise and fall of civilizations, are caused by humans. If only there wasn't so much greed at the top.

janwax said: There is joy in having children, as well as work, but we have to love the planet as much as our children and grandchildren.

Right. And a fundamental part of the work of loving our children and grandchildren (and other people's children and grandchildren) is making sure that they have the resources to thrive, including preserving a planet for them to live on.

JuniperAnn said:

Right. And a fundamental part of the work of loving our children and grandchildren (and other people's children and grandchildren) is making sure that they have the resources to thrive, including preserving a planet for them to live on.

Well-said Juniper.

I'm wondering if anyone here is growing food (besides, irises, of course). My husband and I have a friendly rivalry over possession of the compost heap. He, of course would like all of that black gold for his tomatoes, squash, cabbage, kale, onions, garlic (he grows great garlic!)peas,etc... and I, who have utilized that phrase "Man does not live by bread alone", have focused on pampering my iris.
But, in all seriousness, I think that growing as much of one's food as possible is a bit of insurance
against what may come in the future. Besides, it tastes better and vegetable gardening can be a pleasure. Dh is also experimenting with Hugel culture ( imagine an umlaut over the u in Hugel).

JuniperAnn said:Right. And a fundamental part of the work of loving our children and grandchildren (and other people's children and grandchildren) is making sure that they have the resources to thrive, including preserving a planet for them to live on.

@janwax Most people these days, don't realize that during WWll that there were actually ration coupons used... That was what a "Victory Garden" was all about . Tell the hubby, your Iris are important to your well being, & you would rather have a fried green tomato without the compost & you "Rustic Garden" is more important ! Some 'heirloom' tomato varieties do taste much better, than the newer kinds....

@ShawnSteve I don't have any links handy but I did spend some time looking into biodegradable plastics, of which there are several different types. Many don't have very good ratings when one starts looking at all the various aspects. I have some familiarity with what's going on in Maine where most of the towns are requiring paper bags with reusable tote bags as the alternative. When we shop we use the tote bags for small items and leave larger items in the cart which we then transfer to tubs in the car. Works well for us.

@janwax We grow a vegetable garden, around 1600 sq ft. A good bit of our crop is given away to our neighbors and food pantries that will take fresh vegetables.

Shawn - I remember Victory Gardens! (my mother tried, bless her soul). I'm 82 and remember WW2, ration books, meat tokens, war bonds, and doing without many items we'd been used to. But also what I remember about the war effort was the spirit of the people - a "we're all in this together" feeling - and, of course a great President, Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

My "compost rivalry" with DH is a friendly family joke. A little pepper in our many years together.

Mac - congrats on growing a big vegetable garden! And sharing what you grow!

DH puts together a basket of our veggies, periodically, and takes it to an elderly couple near us.,
who have some health problems. The local Senior Center has enough land to make gardening plots free, or almost so, for those who want to grow food.

@janwax I would have never guessed it, but was taught it wasn't polite to ask that sort of question of a lady.... After all the recent rains, I am uncertain, about much of any actual growing area, except for near the driveway, here...At least at this time of year, anyway. Unless it has just been so much rain, it simply can't drain away quickly enough ! (for proper grammar)

Jan, I've never posted in this thread before, because I know I would explode with angry. I've had a lifelong awareness of how we humans have been destroying the earth. I can see both ends of the points made here and am mostly in agreement - but with a big NO on LED lights which, while energy saving, are surprisingly extremely unhealthy no matter how they tint or label them.

Since this is a gardening forum, I would also like to contribute to the topic of how what we plant is also contributing to air pollution and health ailments - something I was only recently enlightened to. But it's going to have to be a post for another day when I have the free time to source link the research, as I suspect some of the ornamental gardeners might get a bit put off by this, and it's not my intent to be shaking my finger at anyone for planting seemingly innocent plants, trees, and shrubs, but rather to inform so that gardeners have this information as they consider their new garden designs. (Thankfully, iris are not on the naughty list.)

Yes, there were problems with the oldest LED lights, which were commonly used for Christmas tree lighting. The old incandescent should still be available, but the newer coil shaped ones, have Mercury... So, the newer LED which are brighter may be better, except if too bright, ( as a replacement for high pressure sodium street lighting) may affect vision. with glare & alter circadian rhythm...It just isn't a perfect world, we live in.

The reason why I mention that the world we live in, isn't perfect, is because we tend to invent & create things (including synthetics) that contaminate this world. The cell phone that was delivered today, has a sticker label...CA PROP 65 WARNING:. "contains chemicals known by the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm."