I've not participated much in this forum for the past long while because straight-up, authoritative, blanket statements irritate me. And I don't come to this site to be irritated.
I think that Gene makes a very good point that we'd all do well to remember as we discuss photography here:
gasrocks said:...getting the right exposure...can be a very personal thing. Some like things lighter or darker than others.
Thankfully, people have very, very different tastes. Those who have commented on the last shot that you posted, Gene, (I'll include myself here) think it would be a more compelling photo were it lighter. By no means does it mean you're wrong shooting it like you did. It's clear that you made the art that you wanted. But, that said, your audience might be more moved by a lighter shot. Taste. You didn't shoot it to please us - but the flipside of that is that the consensus is that it would be more pleasing were it lighter. None of that is of any consequence apart from the fact that it's okay that both ideas (you created what you wanted - this audience might appreciate it more were it lighter) are true.
The other thing to remember is that photographs are shot for - exist for - are brought into existence (final cause) for different reasons. Take a beautiful actress, for example. Her passport photo and her headshot photo will look very, very different - and the headshot will have the dickens post-processed (photoshopped) out of it. And it should. Otherwise it wouldn't serve its purpose. . A mugshot is not a portrait. Nor should it be. They exist for different reasons.
So as we fiddle around here in this forum, trying to learn from and help each other, realize that both taste (not only in terms of light/dark) and purpose (of the shot) are in play here.
(Sidenote: I've found that creating and critiquing are very different skills. In my career, I've found that some people are brilliant at generating written content - while others truly excel at editing even though they are mediocre at content creation. I think the same is true with other art forms - including photography.)
With those ideas in mind, and while I'm still on my soapbox, I will agree that (back to the purpose of this thread) straight-up, authoritative, blanket statement that it's not a good idea to have a bunch of out of focus foreground -
generally. But exceptions are also interesting and this ought to be a place to be able to discuss those rather than be shut down by a NEVER DO THIS OR THAT statement.
To wit, while I'm fairly pleased with both of the shots from yesterday evening that follow (no processing - straight out of the camera in Gene's honor (tho I suspect each could do with a little tweaking)), I find the first, all mucked up with out-of-focus cherry leaves in the foreground, to be more compelling than the latter. (Both shot with a 300mm (full-frame sensor so it's not popped up to 450) at f/4.5, ISO-800, 1/125.)
A matter of taste? Yes. A broken "rule"? Yes. But to my eye, the first is much more interesting for lots of reasons - most of which are imparted by that out of focus mess of the cherry leaves.
(Sidenote: I have an awful time trying to take pics of darker flowers, birds, pets, etc. Gives me fits.)
Finally, Gene, at the risk of offending you, please realize that your edicts and dismissals usually land as well on your audience as the "lighten that one up" comments landed on you. Well, often worse. Not much give and take. It's exhausting to read through invective. And by looking at all the photographs (professionally published and otherwise) that we're barraged with daily, it's clear that the scope of tastes is broad - as is the purpose for different shots.
And that's why we're here, in the main: to figure out how to improve the shots we take (both for their purpose and to our tastes). I'm not here to learn to become a Gene clone (or be told I'm not one). I'm here to listen to Gene (and everyone else) and incorporate those bits of skill and experience that they're willing to edify me with -- in order to better develop my abilities to shoot to my shot's purpose and my particular tastes. Hope that made sense.
Oh, and thanks for the tip on looking at shots in B&W. Absolutely invaluable.