Adeniums forum: great info on potting medium

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Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Jun 16, 2012 11:11 PM CST
Here is a quote from a great grower from India on his potting medium....

Coarse river sand 50%, Farm Yard Manure, especially poultry manure 30%.Coconut fiber but not powdered coco peat 15%, Charcoal 5% - This is my potting media. Same for seedling trays also.I will not add any chemical fertilizer at any time for my adeniums including seed bed.


so 2 master growers have told me almost same thing i think im going to start researching for coarse river sand.

have video but cant load here ..4 days after rain totally dry

more to come
Name: Doris Klene
Greensburg,Indiana.
Horse,cattle owners click klenepipe
Charter ATP Member Mules Daylilies Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Cut Flowers
Container Gardener Birds Bromeliad Seed Starter Region: Indiana Plumerias
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kareoke
Jun 17, 2012 6:17 AM CST
Well that puts that mix out for me, NO sand, No Coconut Fiber, and NO farmyard manure.
Name: Jim Cook
South Florida
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jimsned2
Jun 17, 2012 11:31 AM CST
I'm with you Doris, I've looked and looked for coconut fiber, and I'm not familiar enough with any farmers to ask if I could have some of they're farmyard poo ! Still, it's nice to have the information just in case I see it available some where.

Jim

Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
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Dutchlady1
Jun 17, 2012 11:55 AM CST
Horse manure is readily available in our area (Craigslist, Farm & Garden section), so I think it would be in yours as well.
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Jun 17, 2012 12:03 PM CST
here is what he determines as coconut fiber and his suggestions

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"Both coco peat or coconut fiber are same.
Young, fibrous coir with a lot of large pith particles and short fibers should be used to mix with adenium potting medium. The fine materials of the coco peat should be sieved off always.
If coir blocks are the only source looks carefully for large particles and lots of fiber always."

he believes that our coir is to fine and hold to much water and compacts the potting medium to much.

I dont have an out let for chicken manure but there is black cow bagged OR cheaper composted manure at lowes and H.D.

I think is mixture causes me to see the reason fro each component and the ratio and see what is the closet thing i have to that like the manure. and sand i saw a corce builders sand at the H.D so i think still little fine so im mixing with crushed rock you use as a base for patio paves stones. the mix looks like it will make a nice mix. now the coconut fibers the coir i get is so fine BUT i can get coconut liner baskets ar H.D for under 2.00 and cut with snips or im thinking i have a meat grinder if i soak it wet and fees it threw that it might work. cor the charcoal again THE H.D. has it for orchids its to big but if you put in a pillow case you can wack it with a hammer to reduce the size. that is about the full list so i see ANYONE willing to put a bit of work in to it you can use this as a guide to better potting medium.

the thing is the feeding now chemical fert. this is one im stopping now these plants become week and susceptible to disease and rot with the chemicals. he saids the plant doesnt get the right outer skin and the stronger stems if forced to grow to fast. in the long run the will be able to produce more and bigger blooms and stems.

He said even the hy breads and crosses are no different still need to treat the same.


Just some info that might help newbies and "seasoned growers" alike

mike
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Jun 17, 2012 1:25 PM CST
here is a video of the potting medium posted above this is 4 days after big rain you want it bone dry like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=rPKX5s...

mike
Name: Jim Cook
South Florida
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jimsned2
Jun 17, 2012 4:16 PM CST
Wow, neat video; but talk about dry!!!! I wonder if he ever gives them water? I'm glad you mentioned black cow, I forgot about that.

Jim

Name: Charleen
Barnesville, Ga. Zone 7b-8 (Zone 8a)
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Ridesredmule
Jun 17, 2012 4:51 PM CST
Yes, Mike. I saw that. I think I will take a hammer to the orchid mix I have. I will have to look to see which one it is. Bet I got it a Lowes tho. I love learning all this stuff....Thank you....
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Jun 17, 2012 5:02 PM CST
i saw you liked the video and i asked him if i could re post his info and he send the pics on the coconut coir and said i could post anywhere and by looking at his plants and his farm i think he knows what he is doing at least for his climent but it will still give us an idea of what really works. He is so prompt with answering questions and seems like he love to spread his knowledge base

Jim I will ask him how often he thinks these need to be watered either rain or manual

mike

Name: Jonna
Mérida, Yucatán, México (Zone 13a)
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extranjera
Jun 17, 2012 7:28 PM CST
Great video and yes, that is really dry soil. I need to stop watering mine as much as I have. It drains right away but it doesn't get that dry ever. The coconut pic that is the one he says to use is exactly what I got from the guys in the market. So yay for that. They chopped it up in chunks, some larger than his were but mostly about the same. The powder he talks about does get on everything and is a pita. I've been dumping it in one of my garden beds, can't hurt. I think I'm going to make up some soil, I have the charcoal, the coco husks, just need some river sand. That might be more difficult as we are so near the beach and there are no above ground rivers on this peninsula, they are all underground in limestone. I also noticed that he is using concrete pots that look very much like the ones I have, very cheap here.
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Jun 17, 2012 8:02 PM CST
thats great im glad you have got the coca fiber and it sounds like you will mostly be set. i have messaged him and asked how often should our plants get water if it is not raining or is there a case of to much rain and have to protect them from water?

i think with that mix for soil the rainy season here will not hurt much and the whole chemical thing i think is the way im going to try. I think i had a lot of stem rot due to weak stems growing to fast and not having a tough skin on them.

we all seem to try to rush plants now days to get bigger faster and bloom longer and its not in there natural tendency so we have to start treating for everything.....just my opinion...

just planted 72 adenium seeds 13 different kinds and 12 black giant seeds just also have soaking around 150-200 plumeria seeds. starting to think im insane!!! where is the white jackets?? Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Jun 17, 2012 11:56 PM CST
here is a few more things i have found out

Jim about water
Normally a consumer {in India} will not grow his adeniums under plastic cover. So, what is the use of supplying adeniums which will grow under plastic cover? Then there is no meaning of growing plants by hard culture.
No watering and no protection from rain for my adeniums during monsoon. Mine is a very open medium and whatever the amount of water received by rain will drain away.
A grower or a consumer can protect his adenium during rainy season by transparent plastic cover but all directions except top will be open like an umbrella.

hard culture is the way of growing natural to get a tough plant that can with stand droughts and monsoon. If you have in the ground and can not amend the soil to drain well it is a different story

in india he does a lot of his re potting grafting and root trimming in the dry season only waters mabe 1 time week i needed.

this is what he thinks about our coir unless you have found coarse coir.
The fine dust of coco peat holds much more water than peat and I have found it dangerous even at 10% of the potting mix for adeniums.

m
Name: Cora
Alpharetta/Jonh's Creek, Ga. (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member Greenhouse Dog Lover
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CoraBarner
Jun 18, 2012 6:26 AM CST
Try checking "Pet-store" in your area, sometimes they carry it for bedding on small animals.

I found it at Petsmart, in a fairly reasonable price for a block of coco fiber.
Name: Jim Cook
South Florida
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jimsned2
Jun 18, 2012 7:29 AM CST
Mike because I have very sandy soil all of my adenium planted in the ground thrive,two days after one of our downpours I can dig down 5 inches and it's as dry as a bone. I tried using my own back yard sandy soil for potting a few plants;what a disaster even though I put broken up clay over the drainage holes the soil compacted sooo hard! I didn't lose any but it taught me a lesson. Cheap isn't the way to go. Thumbs down

Jim

Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Jun 18, 2012 11:33 AM CST
Jim our sand is blow sand very fine you need coarse sand builders use some times in different concrete applications it still is a little fine but crushed rock chips are smaller then 1/4 -1/8 in help make a good balanced sand. Glad your ones in ground are doing good it depends where in Florida you live by a Friends house water table is way to high close to green swamp dig down 1 ft standing water. here at my house is good i have dug 5+ feet down and no water but i keep mine in pots i hate my grass and weeding around them dont have time for that. Jim you are right that cheapest is not the way to go most the time. I agree and dont make that point. You can substitute other items that have the same properties to gain the same results.

Cora the coco fiber from pets-mart is what i have used it is referred to as cocoa peat it is to fine to grow the way if you look at pics it has to much small pieces witch retain water to long. That is if you are trying to grow the way best for strong hardened off plants. They grow slower and are tougher plants. seems to me most people just do everything to get there plants to grow as fast as possible and its ok but for the most part it tends to be weaker and more susceptible to disease and other problems. a lot of plants grown correct have natural ways to fend off such things. but if you are taking a tropical or desert plant and growing in a climent not suited you have to make exceptions and deal with the problems.

This is all about growing the hardened way 90% of Americans dont because they dont know how or are only concerned with getting the plant big fast.
Name: Jim Cook
South Florida
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jimsned2
Jun 18, 2012 2:40 PM CST
Mike, have you ever gone to a hydrophonics store? Other then you'll find a lot of pot growers there, you might fine the coir and type of charcoal your looking for. I printed out your list and if I get time I'm going to take a ride to Hollywood tomorrow and see if my memory is correct. It wouldn't surprise me to fine the sand also.

Jim

Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Jun 18, 2012 4:55 PM CST
yep have been to one before but not for years i have to drive about 35-40 miles last time and all they had was a few light kits and fert. just to be able to sell drug related products. i do look at them on line but you are right they most likely have it all

good luck

let us know

mike

mocropot
Jun 19, 2012 7:08 PM CST
It is a very interesting discussion. I gave up on the river sand 4 years ago. I could not find and honestly did not understand how it supposed to look.
For the sand you can get silica sand, it has larger particles than any other sand.
I am trying right now Napa product along with perlite and some soil. Will see. I am repotting 4 large plants and probably 10 medium size.
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
Image
chefmike92
Jun 19, 2012 7:25 PM CST
i think there is so many ways to mix your potting mix that it really depend on so many factors. I think the thing im mostly learning is we (or I ) have been using chemical fert. and watering to much even if i they are not rotting im trying to force them to grow to fast.

mike

mocropot
Jun 20, 2012 3:43 AM CST
I agree. I do not use too much fertilizer on my plants because of luck of time and space. LOL

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