Daylilies forum: What's with all these seedling sales?

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Name: bb
north of boston on the coast
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1
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lilylady
Aug 13, 2012 5:20 AM CST
I don't get it.

If they are worthy of marketing and bring in quite a bit of money, why aren't they being registered?

And are those that are buying, registering them after parent use?

Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Aug 13, 2012 6:29 AM CST
Yes, some do register the seedlings they purchase and others just use it to hybridize with.
A lot if times the seedlings are good enough to register, however, it may not fit into the hybridizer's program so they sell it to someone who can use it.
Some people only have a very small space to grow registered cultivars as well as seedlings so there is no way they can keep all of the seedlings that may be worthy of registering, they keep the best of the best so to speak.

Also, some are being used mainly for hybridizing purposes and with limited space once the seedling get so big then it has to be divided and some of it sold.

[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
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daylily
Aug 13, 2012 11:23 AM CST
I am with you, Bobbie. I've never sold a seedling. If I don't want to keep it to evaluate, it goes to compost.

I guess, though, if you can sell seedlings for hundreds of dollars that you don't want - why take the time to register and introduce them? I would not do it, but a lot of people seem to be doing it now.
Name: Jan
Hustisford, WI
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Daylilies Dog Lover Irises Region: United States of America
Region: Wisconsin
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philljm
Aug 13, 2012 3:12 PM CST
I have bought a couple of seedlings - one has yet to bloom (new this year) but bought for a price MUCH less than the hybridizers introductions - and they are ones I love.

Another was unbloomed, and it is just the coolest nocturnal spider.

Will I register them? No. But it is a way of getting current genetics for a cheaper price - unless you are on the LA participating in the current frenzy Whistling ~Jan
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Aug 13, 2012 4:13 PM CST
True Jan, to get genetics for one's own hybridizing program would definitely be a good reason to buy one.
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
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Natalie
Aug 13, 2012 4:52 PM CST
I bought a great seedling last year. It's a really beautiful daylily, and I got it at a great price. I bought it to use for hybridizing, even though the parents are unknown. I just really loved it!
Natalie
Name: Kim W
Md (Zone 6a)
More daylilies!!!!
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kimkats
Aug 13, 2012 5:02 PM CST
I bought some from Fred & Michele this year to use in my hybridizing. Good genetics. And awesome branching from one I got from Michelle. That being said I cannot justify spending crazy amounts of money on registered varieties let alone a seedling, I don't care who's seedlings they are. Blinking
It's my cats world, I'm just here to open the cans.
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Aug 13, 2012 5:14 PM CST
I buy seedlings because I may not be able to afford the parents at the time if they are newer ones or I may just not want to buy the parents and take the time to make the seed and plant them when I can go ahead and buy a seedling that has the parentage I want and someone else has done the work for me in making seed, planting, growing. This saves me time in the long run by not having to take a year or more to get the seedling I want to use.
I have seedlings I have bought but will never be registered because I either do not own all of it or the hybridizer I got it from said not to sell it, give it away, or anything else except compost it once I'm done with it. The reason he didn't register it himself is because it was shorter than he wants for his program, everything else about it was great.
I use these for hybridizing because they bring something into my program I want to use.
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Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
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JWWC
Aug 13, 2012 6:02 PM CST
I have a around 20 different seedlings. Typically, I will buy things that are not going to be introduced if I like them. Something about having flowers I am not going to see somewhere else appeals to me. Others I bought because I liked the flower or because of the parents.

I did bid a not insignificant amount on one of the Gaskins's seedlings listed right now because I had been looking for a flower that reminded me of my grandmother and that was literally the first thing that I thought of when I saw the flower. That the potential was there to register the flower in her name was just a bonus. I was, naturally, outbid but C'est la vie.
Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
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daylily
Aug 13, 2012 6:32 PM CST
I have been given seedlings by hybridizers, and have bought a few through the years. I think the most expensive seedling ones were in the $15-$20 range.

I guess that makes me a hypocrite since I would not sell seedlings myself. Whistling Shrug!
Name: Mona
Guntown, Ms (Zone 7b)
I love nature & everything outdoors
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monalisa18
Aug 13, 2012 7:55 PM CST
I buy seedlings because I can get a year jump on buying the 2 parents, crossing, seeds, seeds growing into plants and then finally a year or two blooming. I've bought tiny seedlings, about 4" up to grown seedlings that are blooming. I like buying seeds, seedlings, and registered plants. I use all of them to my personal enjoyment and future sales. I am just now selling my first seeds. I will also be selling seedlings as time goes on. I will be selling the seedlings to make money to help me buy more plants, seeds and seedlings. I will also sell registered plants as I can get enough stock built to register and sell the plants.

It is all a great big obsession to me and so much fun, really sooooooooo much fun. I enjoy the whole game, well maybe not all the hand watering, but most of it anyway Smiling
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Aug 14, 2012 4:11 AM CST
I have bought several seedlings on the auction and have sold many more on the auction to help pay for this addiction I have. For me its a money thing, buying or selling. When I buy one of those high dollar seedlings I make sure I get all of it, I can use it, then resell it after it increases and get most of my money back if not all. When selling my own seedlings for $20, thats as much as I can get for those high priced registered plants a lot of times.
I think I mentioned this before, the last seedling I got on the auction was like winning the lotto. It put my eye and edge program ahead several years, I have not bid on one in two years because I think I already have the best, many of the dark eyes and edges you have seen this year are from that seedling. This year I used it's babies pollen more than anything else. Sometimes you get lucky.
Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
Region: United States of America Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Daylilies Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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daylily
Aug 14, 2012 2:30 PM CST
Note... I did split Elizabete's post off to a new thread. She raised some interesting questions about hybridizing.

Here is the link.

Juli
(Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer
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dormantsrule
Aug 14, 2012 6:26 PM CST
Lots of people, including myself, like to register a seedling as a gift for someone. Spending $15 or so on a cross and $15 registration is a small amount to pay to make someone's heart smile.
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Name: Pippi21
Silver Spring, Maryland 20906 (Zone 7a)
Pippi21
Aug 14, 2012 7:26 PM CST
Juli, By any chance is your daylily called "Indian Giver?"
Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
Region: United States of America Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Daylilies Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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daylily
Aug 14, 2012 7:41 PM CST
Pippi, I have not grown Indian Giver, but a friend has a huge clump. He bought it years ago from Rice's.
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Aug 14, 2012 10:42 PM CST
Well Bobbi, first one puts out a daylily that looks somewhat different.

Some become registered. People like the different look. Then when
some of these daylilies are looked up, not many garden photos can be found.

Some seedlings are sold from the field or whatever. People like what they get.
The seedlings are a less expensive way to get the look.

Some seedlings go on auction. People love the look. Many want the look.
Then they sell great, really great, and then really, really great.
Why go through the time and paperwork to register them when they sell so well without
it, and still be able to keep the best for hybridizing.

I think the short of it is simply supply and demand.

JMHO, of course.
Name: bb
north of boston on the coast
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1
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lilylady
Aug 15, 2012 3:12 PM CST
Just putting a note back here which got inadvertently moved when a new subject was posted.


I think it wise, if you are looking for the gene pool only, not to spend the big bucks of a named daylily but buying its sib cheap.

But that is not the point I was trying to make initially.

It is selling those $200 - $1500 seedlings without registering them. I just don't get it. If it is worth that kind of money, shouldn't it be a registered daylily?

Registering a plant has nothing to do with the hybridizer keeping the plant for his own program, in my mind. Is it not living up to his standards? I don't know... but when seedlings bring more than registered daylilies, I just don't get it!

I purchased a nice tall dark pink UF that i am using to breed with. I asked about why it was not considered worthy for registering, and the answer was that it was not branched enough for his taste. I love it as a garden plant and have set seed on it last year and this.

Two stories:

Fooled Me was let out of Reilly's garden as a seedling, since it wasn't in his breeding choices (he liked pinks and pastels), and it didn't have great bud count at the time. Well, it was registered later by someone else, then re ID'd as a Reilly seedling and that is how it got its name. When in clump form, it did have the good stats, AND IT WON A WRITE IN up to the STOUT MEDAL!

John Lambert would register and sell out of his stock of a cultivar when he had as low a division as 7 (I think). He wanted the good ones named and out of his garden, so he would have room for more!
Name: Doris&David Bishop
Cartersville, Ga. (Zone 7b)
Daylilies Cat Lover Clematis Region: Georgia Garden Art
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Casshigh
Aug 15, 2012 5:30 PM CST
My opinion, not that of Doris, shall be in ALL CAPS BELOW.

I think it wise, if you are looking for the gene pool only, not to spend the big bucks of a named daylily but buying its sib cheap. I AGREE 100%!!

But that is not the point I was trying to make initially.

It is selling those $200 - $1500 seedlings without registering them. I just don't get it. If it is worth that kind of money, shouldn't it be a registered daylily? I GUESS THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE GASKINS' SEEDLINGS, AS THEY GO HIGHER THAN MOST ON THE LA, THEY VERY, VERY TALENTED HYBRIDIZERS, IMHO. THEIR WHOLE OPERATION IS ABOPUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF AN AVERAGE HOUSE, SO THEY DON'T MULTIPLY THEM VERY MUCH. THEY WILL NOT WAIT UNTIL THEY HAVE 30-50-75-100-200 FANS UNTIL THEY INTRODUCE A CULTIVAR, (BECAUSE FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY CHOOSE NOT TO DO SO) LIKE MANY HYBRIDIZERS DO. THEY NEED TO MOVE FLOWERS OUT, SO THEY SELL A FEW OF THEIR INTRODUCTIONS FROM THEIR WEBSITE, AND OTHERS ON THE LA. WHILE THEY SELL SOME SEEDLINGS ON SITE FOR $10-25, THEIR BEST ONES THAT MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE ROOM TO REPRODUCE GO ON THE LA. IF THEY WERE INTRODUCING10-30 FLOWERS EACH YEAR, MAYBE THEIR SEEDLINGS WOULD GO FOR MUCH LESS. WE ALL KNOW THAT SOME HYBRIDIZERS SELL NO SEEDLINGS AT ALL. I GUESS THEY DECIDED SOME TIME BACK TO STAY SMALL, GET WHAT THEY COULD TO MAKE SOME MONEY, BUT NOT GET RICH, AND PUT SOME REALLY HIGH-QUALITY SEEDLINGS OUT THERE THEY PEOPLE COULD ENJOY (OR INTRODUCE IF THEY WANTED TO DO SO). THEY ARE VERY NICE PEOPLE AND THEY HAVE CHOSEN A PATH THAT NOT MANY GREAT HYBRIDIZERS TAKE. ALSO, THEY WILL NOT BE WORKING WITH DAYLILIES FOR MANY MORE YEARS, SO, MANY PEOPLE WANT TO GET SOMETHING FROM THEM WHILE THEY CAN. THAT'S JUST MY TWO CENTS, BUT THAT'S NOT WORTH WHAT IS USED TO BE- BUT... I'M NOT WHAT I USED TO BE, EITHER!!

Registering a plant has nothing to do with the hybridizer keeping the plant for his own program, in my mind. Is it not living up to his standards? I don't know... but when seedlings bring more than registered daylilies, I just don't get it!

I purchased a nice tall dark pink UF that i am using to breed with. I asked about why it was not considered worthy for registering, and the answer was that it was not branched enough for his taste. I love it as a garden plant and have set seed on it last year and this.

Two stories:

Fooled Me was let out of Reilly's garden as a seedling, since it wasn't in his breeding choices (he liked pinks and pastels), and it didn't have great bud count at the time. Well, it was registered later by someone else, then re ID'd as a Reilly seedling and that is how it got its name. When in clump form, it did have the good stats, AND IT WON A WRITE IN up to the STOUT MEDAL!

John Lambert would register and sell out of his stock of a cultivar when he had as low a division as 7 (I think). He wanted the good ones named and out of his garden, so he would have room for more!
"Anything worth doing is worth overdoing"~~~David Bishop
http://daylilyfans.com/bishop/

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Acerbob
Aug 15, 2012 8:37 PM CST
Hi all. Just my opinion, and it is worth what was paid for it, Lol.

I agree with Doris 100%. I have spent some time with Phil and Mary in the garden. Mary enjoys talking about her kids, grand kids, and family in general. A lot of family history is imparted while walking the rows of the garden. Mr Phil is a wealth of farming knowledge, and not just daylily. Mrs. Mary once told me that when her and Mr. Phil first moved to the house across the street from the garden, that she felt like she might try her hand at hybridizing daylilies. Some members of her family had been doing so since the 1940's. So Mr Phil cleared a small area of the wooded lot, and off she went. By this time she had befriended Bill Munson and with a little guidance, she realized she had a few DL "that looked pretty darn good". She registered a few and began selling them to friends. Well along comes the Auction and look what happened. IMHO, Mary was doing something she loved, made a few breakthroughs in the faces of daylilies, and supply and demand took over. She was at the right place at the right time. The DL auction is the perfect medium for maximizing a small gardeners potential and if people are willing to pay exorbitant prices for a product, be it pink elephants or unregistered daylilies, so be it.
It is nice to see good things happen to good people.

Thanks Bob

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