Plant Database forum: Hosta 'Ani Machi' vs. Hosta 'Geisha'

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Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
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eclayne
Aug 27, 2012 1:58 PM CST

Plants Admin

ViolaAnn brought the confusion regarding this Hosta to my attention. Based upon her research and my own I believe it is clear that any Hosta images being proposed under either of these names are actually Hosta 'Ani Machi' P. & J. Ruh (2002). Numerous sources indicate Hosta ‘Geisha’ K. Vaughn (1983) is lost to cultivation.

The Hosta Registry of the American Hosta Society, the International Cultivar Registration Authority (ICRA) for Hosta, has one entry for each of these cultivars.

Hosta ‘Geisha’ registered by K. Vaughn (1983), a small hosta. http://hostaregistrar.org/detail.php?id=2308&Variety=Geisha

Hosta ‘Ani Machi’ registered by P. & J. Ruh from Japan (2002), a large hosta. http://hostaregistrar.org/detail.php?id=323&Variety=Ani%20Ma...
States under Additional Description “This is the correct name for what has been sold as Geisha…”

Hostas Direct provides an explanation for the confusion under their Details for these hosta, 2 entries for ‘Geisha’ and 1 for ‘Ani Machi’.
H. ‘Geisha’: They note, “…"the plant he registered as Geisha no longer existed and he would not mind that Paul Aden reused the name". ” The plant you have may one day be corrected in the registration….”. It appears that time has come.
http://www.hostasdirect.com/geisha
H. ‘Geisha’: additional entry. http://www.hostasdirect.com/geisha-aden
H. ‘Ani Machi’: http://www.hostasdirect.com/ani-machi

Adding to the confusion are the entries in the Hosta Library, http://www.hostalibrary.org/
The entry for H. ‘Ani Machi’ notes “see Geisha”. http://www.hostalibrary.org/a/a.html
The entry for H. ‘Geisha’ states “The plant we know as 'Geisha' is the same as a hosta imported from Japan under the name 'Ani Machi', which should be considered a Japanese synonym. The Geisha pictured is not the hosta registered by Kevin C. Vaughn in 1983. Vaughn's hosta is believed lost….” http://www.hostalibrary.org/g/g.html
I believe this information to simply be out of date based upon the registration information in the Hosta Registry.

Additional confusion is created by this PlantFiles entry at Dave’s Garden which notes H. ‘Geisha’ “…Additional cultivar information: (aka Ani Machi), Hybridized by Vaughn; Year of Registration or Introduction: 1983.” This information is unsupported by both the Hosta Registry and the Hosta Library. http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/3152/

We currently have an entry for each of these plants with H. ‘Ani Machi’ having an additional cultivar name ‘Geisha’.
H. ‘Ani Machi’: Hosta (Hosta 'Ani Machi')
H. ‘Geisha’:

Given that H. ‘Geisha (1983) is believed to no longer exist I propose deleting this entry from the database. Should it one day emerge I would imagine this would be “news” in the Hosta community and we could add it back in at that time. An Admin thumbs up for ‘Ani Machi’ would I believe be appropriate as well.

Any additional information anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated, in particular the connection between H. ‘Geisha (1983) and Aden.
Evan
Name: Ann
Ottawa, ON Canada (Zone 5a)
Hostas Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Composter Region: Canadian Clematis
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ViolaAnn
Aug 27, 2012 2:37 PM CST
I would support deleting 'Geisha' as long as admin staff have a fool proof way of remembering why it was deleted because it's such a common nursery name for the plant, that someone is sure to come along and propose it me added. Alternatively, could the entry be left with a clear indication that it is not believed to exist and something steering people to 'Ani Machi'?
Ann

Pictures of all my hostas, updated annually and tracked since 2008 begin at: https://violaann.smugmug.com/Garden/Hostas/Hostas-in-my-gard...
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
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Paul2032
Aug 27, 2012 3:26 PM CST
The "Hosta Handbook" by Mark zillis 2000 states "Ani Machi Giboshi can be found in many Japanese collections and is the same plant that has been sold as 'Geisha'. It is not, however, the plant Kevin Vaughn registered under that name in 1983. Zillis has a newer book out that may have more info. I didn't buy it but a friend did and I will check to see if there is any more info there.
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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eclayne
Sep 8, 2012 10:05 AM CST

Plants Admin

I've deleted Hosta 'Geisha' from the DB under the premise that it is no longer available.
Dave, is it possible for the (aka Geisha) to show up when doing a general search for "Hosta Geisha"?

General search: http://garden.org/plants/search/text.php?q=hosta+geisha&subm...
Browsing by genus: HOSTA: http://garden.org/plants/browse/plants/genus/HOSTA/?q=a&offs...
Evan
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
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dave
Sep 8, 2012 7:34 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

I've added it! Thumbs up
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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eclayne
Sep 8, 2012 8:28 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thanks Dave.
Evan
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
Sep 9, 2012 7:33 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Magic Wand strikes again! Hilarious!
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Sep 9, 2012 7:38 AM CST

Plants Admin

Thumbs up Thumbs up
Evan
Name: Ann
Ottawa, ON Canada (Zone 5a)
Hostas Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Composter Region: Canadian Clematis
Canning and food preservation Container Gardener Annuals Herbs Seed Starter Vegetable Grower
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ViolaAnn
Sep 14, 2012 6:56 PM CST
Thumbs up from me too. Been away from the computer for awhile.
Ann

Pictures of all my hostas, updated annually and tracked since 2008 begin at: https://violaann.smugmug.com/Garden/Hostas/Hostas-in-my-gard...
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Sep 15, 2012 3:38 PM CST
Hi!

Let me tell you the story. I registered 'Geisha' and Paul Aden took the plant from my garden (even the label!). It was out of a bunch of my Beatrice seedlings and had a creamy-gold center and green edge(one of the parents was . Aden also stole a plant from Japan that was known there as 'Ani Machi'. The name 'Geisha' was certainly better for marketing so he used my name and the Japanese plant.

Aden took a great number of my plants and the American Hosta Society is trying to straighten out these cultivars that were stolen. Besides me, he took from Florence Shaw and Chet Thompkins, stealing their plants and re-naming them as his own.

Most plant people are so nice. It's sad to have a skunk like that ruin things.

Kevin Vaughn

Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Sep 15, 2012 3:43 PM CST

Plants Admin

Skunk is right! That's a really shocking story.
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
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Calif_Sue
Sep 15, 2012 6:14 PM CST

Plants Admin

Wow, what nerve! Blinking
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Sep 15, 2012 6:55 PM CST
Thank you so much Kevin for clearing up our confusion over these two hostas.
You should create a new hybrid skunk cabbage (Western Skunk Cabbage--Lysichiton americanus) and name it after him. Whistling
[Last edited by valleylynn - Sep 15, 2012 6:56 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #309747 (13)
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
Sep 15, 2012 7:25 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Outrageous. I'm glad to hear the story straight from the horse's mouth. Thank you, Kevin.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Sep 15, 2012 8:06 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thanks for clearing this up Kevin. This explains the Hosta Library link "Possible Aden Plant Changes".
Evan
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 15, 2012 9:51 PM CST
I agree
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Sep 16, 2012 12:54 PM CST
Hi!

Yeah it was even worse as he told my mom that "He was going to make me rich." and she even made him lunch as he was stealing us blind! He ended up selling the plants he had stolen to Klehm's Nursery for a large paycheck. I'm still waiting for mine! Of course I was a poor grad student at the time and couldn't really fight "the hosta giant".

Luckily most of history is now coming to light. We have data that almost all of "his" early hybrids, including Sum and Substance, were created by Florence Shaw, all the fragrant ones and a number of the variegated ones were stolen from my yard. Florence Shaw was very sick when he came and raided her property. Skunk may be too nice a word for what he did!

The hosta registrar has now voided most of the Aden registrations, naming him only as the "registrant" not the "originator".

And THANKFULLY most plant people are not like that and I have made so many great and enduring friends through plants.

As Lynn Smith can tell you, my you, my yard is one big hybridizing project, with programs in daffodils, penstemon, pulmonaria, hellebores, sedum,.daylilies, Sempervivum, iris of all types, hardy geraniums, and hosta. It is such fun to go to the yard each morning to see what new thing is blooming.

Kevin
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 16, 2012 1:02 PM CST
I agree That is true, I have had the great fortune of visiting his amazing gardens in Salem, OR.
I can't begin to tell you the treasures that are present everywhere.
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer
Tomato Heads Garden Photography Birds Cut Flowers Foliage Fan Plays in the sandbox
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Paul2032
Sep 16, 2012 1:04 PM CST
What an amazing story...........I have a good friend who has been into Hosta for many years. He doesn't have a computer so I'm going to invite him to come read this.
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 16, 2012 1:23 PM CST
Kevin is a wealth of information on world of hybridizing.

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