Willinator said: Part of the problem I gather for hybridizers is that the blue gene will not hold
in a rose so that is why we have purple roses and lavender roses but no blue roses.

William, I just attended the ARS (American Rose Society) webinar with Christian Bedard, hybridizer for Weeks Roses. On the question of blue roses, he said that the blue gene does not exist in the genome of the Rosa species, that it is only truly present in other plant varieties, so he doubts that a truly blue rose could ever be created.

Calgene Pacific spent over a decade and many millions of dollars "splicing" the gene responsible for blue pigments from petunia into a rose. They've also accomplished it with Carnations and other flowers with some odd results. The sole commercial rose result is the florist rose, "Applause", which is not "blue" but lavender. (And, no, you shouldn't try obtaining a bloom and attempting to breed with it. There ARE marker genes which will show up if the offspring are DNA tested and I can imagine they will very likely hit you hard for patent infringement. You don't spend this kind of time and money on something you won't police.) It was initially introduced as a florist rose in Japan where the national aesthetic appreciates the Human manipulation of Nature (think bonsai trees, cubed and other shaped fruit and vegetables, etc.) where its introductory price was $35 a STEM. It was popular as it could be given and the recipient would appreciate the cost and work entailed in creating the product. Receipt of the flower was an honor bestowed upon the recipient. But, again, it is NOT "blue". The "little blue gene" exists in the flower but they discovered the pH of the plant and flower are too alkaline for the blue pigments to express themselves, so IF it's worth their time and money, they will need to spend who knows how much longer trying to figure out how to change the underlying pH of the entire rose plant so the inserted petunia gene can express blue. Here is the Suntory article about the nearly two decades they've spent trying to create the "blue rose". https://www.suntory.com/sic/re...

Thank you for the interesting post, roseseek. And even though they tried so hard,the result is no more blue than what you see with lavender roses, such as Love Story, a more recent very lavender rose!

Thank you for your detailed explanation. If I want some blue in my rose beds, I seek for delphiniums, clematis or campanulas as companion plants. They do the job splendidly...It's fascinating when mankind finds limits to creativity...(something or for others someone, in my case, is telling us don't push any further). There's such a huge world of possibilities elsewhere...
A whitewash of snow is now on the ground although quite ahead in spring. All my roses are now under cover safely. I would much prefer if gene engineers would find ways to add spring freeze resistance, instead of just a blue rose... But the world seems triggered by illusions of market bonanzas. Markets also have limits to their expectations... Although Japanese ornamentals have provided splendid cultivated varieties, the trends towards extreme manipulation is not my cup of tea. I expect it to stay at the stage of failed attempts. Thus I expect this thread to finish very soon...
Arturo

Arturo, you get snow in Argentina???????? That is quite surprising to me.

hampartsum said: Thank you for your detailed explanation. If I want some blue in my rose beds, I seek for delphiniums, clematis or campanulas as companion plants. They do the job splendidly...It's fascinating when mankind finds limits to creativity...(something or for others someone, in my case, is telling us don't push any further). There's such a huge world of possibilities elsewhere...
A whitewash of snow is now on the ground although quite ahead in spring. All my roses are now under cover safely. I would much prefer if gene engineers would find ways to add spring freeze resistance, instead of just a blue rose... But the world seems triggered by illusions of market bonanzas. Markets also have limits to their expectations... Although Japanese ornamentals have provided splendid cultivated varieties, the trends towards extreme manipulation is not my cup of tea. I expect it to stay at the stage of failed attempts. Thus I expect this thread to finish very soon...
Arturo

As far North in Argetina as you are , that you get snow is a bit of a surprise to me also but then you are in a mountainous area and as I have found from other gardeners close to mountains, the norm is a changing item.

tigerpaws said: Arturo, you get snow in Argentina???????? That is quite surprising to me.

I'm a less than 50 miles away from the Andes with its snow capped peaks! My home town is at 2500 ft elevation. Also I'm 40ºS latitude which means I'm quite a ways south of the equator, already within the southern temperate regions. Thus, we regularly get snow in winter and my garden is comprised mainly with plants that come from the equivalent northern hemisphere temperate regions. Argentina is a huge country, its main axis starts in the tropics and ends in the southern most tip of south America, so one could state that at least half of it has a temperate climate. Its capital, Buenos Aires, where I was born and raised, is within the warm temperate band, so it does get frost in winter occasionally but no snow. But Bariloche, 1000 miles or so south is considerably colder: its become the main ski resort town for its snow. When we got married we chose to live here, mainly because of a much cooler environment plus the spectacular mountain scenery and lakes. I lost my wife to cancer, but I would never consider returning back. Thanks to global warming, Buenos Aires is just too hot to my liking.I'm happy here with my lot, specially because I derive so much joy out of caring my gardens. Mine is a large property: a small farm, so I have plenty of room to play with. If God gives me life I could be busy here eternally!
Days seem to be warming up and lot of early spring garden chores are screaming at me! I put on a grin and off I go, with my shabby clothes, rubber boots, secateurs and don a cap. I'm old enough not to try to be agreable, but simply and just myself, in peace with life, God and my lovely surroundings.

Arturo

You are so sweet, Arturo! It's a pleasure to read your posts.
I am so sorry about the loss of your wife,but am glad that your soul is peaceful,as I'm sure hers is, too.
Hearty best wishes, Eileen

Eileen, I may be sweet....( at times, but can become grumbly like any other older person)...
and your comment just makes me go



Arturo

hampartsum said: Eileen, I may be sweet....( at times, but can become grumbly like any other older person)...
and your comment just makes me go



Arturo

To me you sound like a wonderful man.

LittleAnnie said: To me you sound like a wonderful man.

Patricia, if we keep going in this direction the blue rose thread will definitely be blushed deep red!
Arturo

There are several roses that "pretend" (or are sold by their producers in that way) to be blue... In my short experience, normally they look mostly blue just on the catalogues ;) in reality they normally fade from pink to lavender or light purple or violet... real blue today is still something that doesn't seem really possible for roses. I don't know (probably they have already tested it) if adding some substance to the soil (fertilizers or other), like they do for blue hydrangeas , should help. But I doubt.

hampartsum said: Patricia, if we keep going in this direction the blue rose thread will definitely be blushed deep red!
Arturo

That's ok...I love red roses.

I don't post often at Garden.org, and when I do, it's usually on the daylily forum. But I was looking for a Christmas gift for my son's mother in law ( who lives with them in an attached granny pod) and loves roses - particularly the color blue. As with daylilies, blue seems to exist in shades of colors (although daylilies seem to be getting closer) and is not a true rose color. This has been a great thread, and so very informative, thank you.