Aroids forum: Several Wild Collected Philodendrons for ID.

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Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 7, 2012 1:29 PM CST
Hello Everyone,
I am excited to be presenting these plants for ID. I collected all of them on my trip back from Ecuador, & some reach incredible sizes as well as some interesting variations. I am aware of the plant ID forum of course, but get directed here to the Aroids forum with all of my ID requests. I posted in both locations.

This plant gets leaves longer than 3 feet in the wild. I have some mature specimens as well.
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This plant grows huge as well.
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This is a monstera, but I forget the name.
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This plant grows like a bird nest.
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This plant gets long anterior lobes, but is just a young pup at the moment.
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This also gets leaves of 3 feet or more.
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The person I got this plant from called it a gallanita, but that is obviously a local name that means nothing when searching the net.
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I can not find anything on this plant. It climbs , has about 1' long divisions between leaves, & hairy petioles. This is an extrodinary looking Philodendron. (I think)
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Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Dec 7, 2012 5:52 PM CST

Moderator

I'll ID the ones I am familiar with, starting at the bottom of your list of pictures. The bottom-most plant is P. verrucosum, the next one up is a species of Dieffenbachia; the next up from that one looks to be Anthurium fausto-mirandae, which really does get quite large. I have several of them and they are massive. The next one up is too young to ID. Next up, there appear to be leaves of three different plants in the picture and I'm not clear on which one you wish to have IDd.

LariAnn
Aroidia Research
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 7, 2012 9:45 PM CST
Hey LariAnn,
I have some mature specimens of Anthurium fausto-mirandae as well as 3 other varieties I have yet to photograph. One seems to be a version of Monstera Deliciosa, but it is different. The petioles are rough like sandpaper, & it grows very compact to the ground in what I assume is the bird nest growth pattern. I have one with 2' long leaves & it has a fruit growing on it. I will photograph that as well.

The one that is too young to ID came off a mature plant. I do not have photos of that.

The other plant is a Anthurium clarinervium I believe.
Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Dec 9, 2012 8:37 AM CST
Noel, could you please do some of us a favor. When Smiling you go on your plant collecting trips please take some photographs along with the plant so that we can also get insight on to what exactly these plants like. General area, plants growing around it, shady or sunny, loamy or clay you know, some thing for a plant enthusiast. Thumbs up Getting quite fascinated with what ever you are doing.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 9, 2012 8:54 AM CST
KAMasud said:Noel, could you please do some of us a favor. When Smiling you go on your plant collecting trips please take some photographs along with the plant so that we can also get insight on to what exactly these plants like. General area, plants growing around it, shady or sunny, loamy or clay you know, some thing for a plant enthusiast. Thumbs up Getting quite fascinated with what ever you are doing.
Regards,
Masud.


In the coming year I will do that as I have to purchase a camera. If you are not aware, all of these photos have been taken with a webcam in my house. I am planning on making many more collecting trips after I begin purchasing my permanent home here. I can tell you I have not seen any clay whatsoever since I arrived here. The soil that adult plants eventually send roots into has dust that makes mud approximating clay, but nothing I would identify as clay. Also, nearly all of the plants I collected had roots embedded in live, moist moss of one type or another. My wife tells me she does not like how it looks, so I do not have any to photograph at the moment (this will change soon).

Thank you for the advice about the soil also. I am trying to use a natural cycle to force my plants to bloom yearly is why I was interested in LariAnn's regimen. I had not thought of using that method until reading about her success with it, but I am pretty sure I know why it works. In nature all of these plants grow in leaf & bark litter slightly above the actual soil. 1 of the plants I found growing up a tree had roots 2 feet from the actual soil only rooted in the tree litter. Since this stuff will rot through the rainy season, nitrogen will be rich. As the dry season kicks in the plants begin to draw less nourishment from the tree litter, & more from the air around them. The "dry" season is still pretty moist in the actual forest. The stuff in the air is more mineral based from dust blown in from other locations...I have been reading a lot about plants ,& this region since I arrived here. I hope I am understanding this correctly, so that I can duplicate the process correctly.



Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Dec 9, 2012 8:08 PM CST

Noel, you are lucky to be in an area so beautiful and honestly you should include us in your collecting trips via photographs, descriptions and maybe a bit of story telling. In nature rain fed areas (forests) I have also found these plants growing mostly in leaf litter and remains of dead creatures, never in clay. Here in the mountains I have seen plants in leaf litter and in deserts, sand. As to clay or what we call soil Shrug! never exotic species grown in the garden. Mostly field crops (and that to with tilling) grow in clay or commercial trees but come to think of it, even exotic furniture wood seems to prefer leaf litter. True but not quite, Burma Teak has its roots in soil but the soil is covered with a two feet or so layer of organic litter which provides the nutrients and keeps the roots aerated. As to dry leaf litter, put your hand into the layer in peak dry season and I am quite sure you will find moisture. Plants love moisture and hate it if their roots are standing in water, then they get enough moisture from the atmosphere in the shape of dew, humidity, condensation. This organic material also draws moisture from the atmosphere. They make do and survive quite well. It is we who kill them with tender loving care and over watering. Plus the silly clay and rotting(corrosion) of roots from strong chemical fertilizers.
Also nitrite, nitrate conversion bacteria(example Citrobact) thrives in acidic medium (leaf litter).
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 9, 2012 9:18 PM CST
Hello again Masud,
I made my own luck with this move to Colombia. Not everyone will have this kind of life changing opportunity, so I am totally with you on the sharing of photos & stories. Let me start with the story that brought me here in the first place. This is rather long winded, & has very little to do with plants, but bear with me.

I ended up marrying a woman in the United States in 2008, but that marriage was a nightmare. I spent most of the time I was married to her defending the United States in Iraq. After ending that relationship, I did a couple years of soul-searching to figure out what I really want out of life. I found that I wanted a simple life with a wife who shares my passion for a simple life with old fashioned values, & my passion for nature. At 35 years old, I figured I had searched the United States for this type of woman for long enough, so I began another search.

I have always adored Latin women, & I have always wanted to live in the rainforest. I performed a search for Latin women on the internet, & everything I saw made me gravitate towards Colombia. The women are incredible in many ways even beyond beauty. I joined a site called Colombiancupids (not recommended), & began my search. After about 3 months I encountered a woman whom I thought was perfect, & went to see her after another 3 months of communication. We ended up dating for about 2 years altogether with me coming to Bogota to visit 3 times for about 3 months total. I will not go into all the things that went wrong with that relationship, but I still loved Colombia.

After a little more searching on a free site , I encountered Jessy (my wife pictured in my profile photo with me), & we began communicating. I took a little more caution with her. After about 3 months, I moved to Tumaco Colombia, & lived here with her since then. We got married on November 2nd. So now I have 2 of the 4 things on my lifetime dream list. I live on a tropical island within a few miles of the tropical jungle, & I have a devoted, beautiful, intelligent, Latin woman who is my partner in life. This is the end to this story, & the beginning of an even more beautiful story!

Our trip to Ecuador!

To make all that even better, I just found out on this trip to Ecuador to refresh my tourist visa that I can get a spouse visa, & not have to worry about needing to leave Colombia.

On the way to Ecuador, Jessy & I met a taxi driver named Omar. After a bit of talking, we convinced him to return for us so that we could stop on the road coming back to collect plants for our home. He thought it was quite a strange request, but said we would need to pay double to have the taxi for us alone, but he would stop at any location we wished. This man was true to his word. When we called him the night before leaving Ecuador, he assured us he would be waiting the next morning. The trip is about 4 hours long from Ipiales to Tumaco. Though very beautiful, the plant life on the beginning leg of the trip is mostly evergreens that I have no interest in collecting, or cold climate stuff that would not survive in Tumaco. Oddly enough, the stuff I wanted to collect was only an hour & a half away.

This being the case, I suppose I got distracted from watching for plants I would like to take home, & our taxi driver simply stopped on the end of a bridge when he saw a huge "Monstera deliciosa" (I think that is what it is though I have never seen one this big). He asked if I would like a piece of that one, & my wife exclaimed that she would like it in the house. The thing is incredible. So after exploring the plant which was growing next to the bridge in a creeping growth pattern since there were no trees near to climb, I took out my Leatherman multi-tool. I opened the saw blade & cut through one of the branches of this monster. Even after cutting this branch off, the plant was still an incredible site. I will try to get photos of the mother plant on the next trip.
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After stuffing this plant unceremoniously in the trunk, we took off again. We were still in the mountains, but on the downward trek. About half an hour later of watching all these gorgeous mountains pass by with all the random plant life, I noticed what I thought to be some sort of Philodendron that I saw on the way to Ecuador.
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We stopped to collect this plant. I concentrated on this plant, but Omar had seen something else. He went further back on the road, & waited for me to come along to show me this plant.
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We ended up collecting 3 samples of this plant & one monster of whatever the first one is. LariAnn suggested it may be a Anthurium faustomirandae which is probably correct.

The trip continued with us running into traffic in the middle of no where on a mountain road. Since the Colombian road crews were working up here, the traffic was backed up. Not one to be daunted by annoying circumstance, I got out to look at the plants nearby. I ended up collecting a flowering plant that I have not photographed yet (it wilted, but I am hoping it recovers), & these specimens.
Thumb of 2012-12-07/NoelCalvert/5636a2 Thumb of 2012-12-07/NoelCalvert/2dad1a

Later on the trip we passed an Army security station. A few feet past the station was an incredible looking plant that I have not photographed yet either. It has huge (2' to 3') nearly completely round leaves on a large thick vine. When it recovers I will photograph it. I saw the plant on the Army property across a fence which I thought was a bad idea to cross without permission (DUH), so I looked in the area for other specimens. On the other side of the road about 40' back from where we stopped, I saw 2 plants climbing a tree in a small creek. My wife told me we should just leave. After a few minutes looking for a path to my plant, I was able to get to it, & pull out a large piece to take home with me. This thing had such large petioles that it would not fit in the trunk. As horrible as it sounds, I simply broke off the two leaves it had, & only left the leaf that was unfurling when I pulled it up. The plant fit in the trunk now, & off we went.

Later, there was another area of road work, but it did not stop us from traveling. As we passed through, I saw a flash of red in a small cave about 3' wide on the side of the road. I asked the driver to stop so I could check it out, & ended up with this, & 3 other specimens.
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An example of the other specimens.
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At this point, I forget if I collected any more plants, but we were pretty near home. I am very pleased with the adventure, & looking forward to repeating it. I am also looking forward to exploring other areas.

Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Dec 10, 2012 6:08 AM CST
Don't worry about Omer, I am quite sure he will help you in future also. That's how the plant bug bites in the first place Whistling . At the most you will get noticed as an eccentric but no problem, you are in some very good company as far eccentricity is concerned. Lot of eccentric's on ATP of different flavors and complexion. There might even be a compost thread in some corner and if you take your spotty plant there, some one will give you the answer as to which trace element is missing in its diet. NPK is just a part of plant diet. Next time before collecting any plant, wait a while and do some meditation on the growing medium. As I said you are lucky to be in a spot where all the excitement is, the important part from our point of view is not the plant but the actual growing conditions, the micro climate. Soil condition, moisture level both growing medium and atmospheric, quantity of rain and sun, acid loving or alkaline(lime stone). Make entry forms from the plantdatabase format and enter the data in the field.
As to the romantic part Thumbs up I got lost for four months in Brazil before coming to my senses Hilarious! Agreed, agreed and agreed.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 10, 2012 6:29 AM CST
Smiling I agree Hurray! Rolling on the floor laughing Shrug!

Hello Masud,
I am aware of the trace elements as well. My wife saves egg shells for me for the calcium for my caladiums. Is why I asked about egg shells for the others. I am not sure what other elements are in them. As far as the meditation, that will have to wait until I get home from my trips. I take whatever is stuck to the roots with me, since I know "potting soil" is not the natural mix. After this trip, I combined the local plant store's potting soil with some local sawdust that I purchased for the task(1 part saw dust to 5 parts soil & 2 cups or so of brick material), & some crushed up bricks. I am hoping the bricks here have clay with some trace elements in there. I only put a cup or two of that in the large boxes you see in the picture (72cm*24cm*24cm). So far the plants seem to like it, & like I said they have just been moved into new soil. We will see. None have even shed leaves from stress yet, so I am still waiting. I am going to purchase a camera before my next trip so I assume I will have many more photos to show when I return from that trip.
Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Dec 10, 2012 12:06 PM CST
Trace elements are magnesium, molybdenum and God knows what else, not calcium. Calcium, by the way is calcium carbonate in the shape of egg shells, I don't think Aroids like lime. Sulfer elemental to make the medium acidic, rotting vegetation is acidic not alkaline. Lots of humic acid in there. Noel please go to the following link and meditate on whats written down,
http://www.exoticrainforest.com/plantscollection.html
You need the expert now and you will find the expert at the end of that link. Thumbs up
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 10, 2012 2:01 PM CST
I read somewhere on this site that calcium bicarbonate was used to improve caladium tuber growth somehow. I'll look & see if I can find the link again. Doesn't matter though. I talked with my wife again about the stuff available here, & I will be buying a trace minerals mix to add to my plants next week. Also the fertilizers they have here come in other mixes as well. Amazing what 2 weeks can do for improving a language. We misunderstood each other before when she told me there was no other mix available here. I frequent [url=www.exoticrainforest.com]www.exoticrainforest.com[/url] all the time to learn about the plants I am collecting.

Once I have my own house here, I will be starting my own compost using the sawdust I got as well as anything organic we have around. I am aware of the acidic nature of rotting vegetation as well as the acidic tea released into the water from this material.

I appreciate the help Masud. I am currently working on this as well as preparing for another trip to the jungle! I am in heaven!
Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: Jonna
Mérida, Yucatán, México (Zone 13a)
Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Mexico I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Ponds Tropicals
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plumerias Plays in the sandbox Dog Lover Cat Lover
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extranjera
Dec 10, 2012 2:10 PM CST
I live on a limestone plateau so my soil and rain can be very alkaline, it's probably not a problem for you. However, I pick up coffee grounds from a local cafe and put them on my acid loving plants and citrus, it seems to help a lot. It also discourages slugs.


A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 10, 2012 4:28 PM CST
Been using coffee grounds on a monthly basis all my life for tropical plants. Trick my mother taught me. Loving this site having little tidbits like that.
Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Dec 10, 2012 8:04 PM CST

Moderator

A somewhat acid medium is beneficial for Anthuriums and Alocasias in particular. Anthuriums that seem not to be growing will get a start from some Miracle Gro for acid-loving plants - I use 1 tsp/5 gal and this mix can be used several times a week on them. Caladiums and Typhoniums tend towards a more neutral mix. Philos can take either slightly acid or neutral. Alkaline mixes tend to be bad for Alocasias and Philos - Philos will tend to get deficiencies in alkaline soil. That's some of what I've learned.
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Dec 14, 2012 7:59 AM CST
Coffee beans(spent), tea leaves(spent), elemental sulfer(slow), magnesium sulphate, sulphates of any kind(chemicals shop ask for industrial grade not pharma or food. Cost difference.), vinegar diluted table spoon to a gallon of water, sulfuric acid diluted(careful). Calcium carbonate reacts with acid to make carbonic acid which is vented leaving behind salts. Calcium salt for one. It has been a long time since I did chemistry but do look up Humic acid and you will find what salts are left behind. Salts, these plants hate.
Why not grow them in the medium they were found in?
Regards,
Arif.
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 14, 2012 10:53 AM CST
Hello again Arif,
I am more or less. I am just trying to improve the crap soil that the 1 plant store in town has. I ended up adding some sawdust from local trees, a bit of sand, & whatever plant matter these plants shed as they grow gets remixed into the soil. I have not added any chemicals yet except a once a week feeding of a very diluted 15/15/15 mix which most of them seem to be liking. I am considering collecting a couple 50 gallon trash bags full of the local medium when I come back from Ecuador. Depends on if I can take the time to collect it, & have the room in the car. The soil in Tumaco is mostly sand, so not really what I want. The plants were collected on the actual continent which is not far away.

Does anyone have any idea what the other plant with the reddish brown fruit is, so I can look up some information on it? I want to know how long until this thing is ripe, & care tips for the plant.
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Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Dec 17, 2012 2:09 PM CST

Did you explore the link that I gave you? I don't think so, or you would not have asked about the fruit. Go to the home page. Each and every thing is answered.
http://www.exoticrainforest.com/plantscollection.html
Click all the links and please do spend some time. Patience.
Regards,
Arif.
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Dec 17, 2012 5:57 PM CST
Hello Arif,
I think I have managed to identify the plant with the fruit I was asking about. The site says it takes two months to mature, but I think mine was already older than that since it is beginning to ripen, & the plant has already dropped it. I think the plant is Philodendron sagittifolium.
Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Dec 18, 2012 7:49 PM CST

WoooW! Did you taste it? Is it edible? How about a detailed description and study of its natural habitat? I would not mind my Philis fruiting but I have no idea of the requirements of this plant, except trial and error plus dependent on Joep's comments. Do the native people eat Philis and how do they prepare it?
Regards,
Arif.
Name: Noel Calvert
Tumaco, Colombia-South America (Zone 13b)
A gringo?Where?(does a doubletake)
Image
NoelCalvert
Jan 21, 2013 10:43 AM CST
Arif,
My best suggestion for how to make a philodendron produce fruit is give it the seasons it evolved in. There is a rainy season high in nitrogen rich detritus soaked in mineral rich water from the rains sometimes every night for the whole night. By morning everything has receded, so the mix is incredibly well draining, & made of dried leaves on the top, composted leaves under this, dust, bugs living & dead, & humus underneath all of that, & then either a sandy or clay rich floor, & yes I know that is not clear. The important thing is in most places the roots of these plants never even reach the clay or sand. the detritus mixed layers that I have seen are between 6 inches & 2 feet thick. Note I said rains every night. Most of the time it is sunny during the day here from what I am seeing. Every night for the last month it has rained anywhere between 6 hours & the total night. Also something LariAnn figured out I suppose from trial & error or extrapolation from the location of the plants origins. These plants like warm rain water as that is what they get here. I am talking tropical warm, not boiling warm...

Watch my blog as I am keeping a photo record of the seasons in two locations close to me. This will help with causing your plants to bloom.

Most of the plants I see blooming here produced inflorescence during the dry season, but I am seeing Anthuriums producing inflorescence now which is the onset of the rainy season.
Kneel & swear fealty to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt! Mazrim Taim

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