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Dec 22, 2012 2:19 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jonna
Belgium, Europe (Zone 6a)
Winter Sowing Sedums Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Belgium Region: Europe
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Salvias Herbs Cut Flowers
I noticed that my images of the Papaver miyabeanum were moved to the Papaver nudicaule. I have grown both. The P. nudicaule is much higher (35-40 cm) than the Papaver miyabeanum ( 10-15 cm), so I'm confused. And the P. nudicaule can be orange or yellow, the P. miyabeanum is only yellow and another kind of yellow than the P. nudicaule. Can you please explain it to me why my images were moved.

A bit the same question about the moving the picture of the Campanula rapunculus to the C. rapunculoides. I must say I can't give any real statement about this one, only I think I grow both. The C. rapunculus (the one who was moved to the C. rapunculoides) is biennual here and the C. rapunculoides is a perennial. Must admit they are hard to distuingish, so I might be wrong. I'm not a botanist, so I would like to hear why you think I sent in the wrong picture.
Here is a picture of my C. rapunculoides (the perennial)
Thumb of 2012-12-22/JonnaSudenius/5de4b1
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Dec 22, 2012 2:27 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Papaver miyabeanum is a synonym of P. nudicaule:

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bi...

I'll look into the Campanula. They do seem to be two different species and both are accepted names in some sources.
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Dec 22, 2012 2:47 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
I've found some more recent information (2011) about P. miyabeanum in ITIS, stating that it's a synonym of P. nudicaule subsp. nudicaule.

http://www.itis.gov/servlet/Si...

We don't have an entry for that one, so I'll create the entry and move your photos there. That will preserve the differences in color and height you mention.

As for the Campanula, there have been no changes in the status of the two entries, so some other member must have proposed that your image be moved from one entry to the other. I'll move it back to C. rapunculus.
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Dec 22, 2012 2:54 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jonna
Belgium, Europe (Zone 6a)
Winter Sowing Sedums Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Belgium Region: Europe
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Salvias Herbs Cut Flowers
'My' P. miyabeanum is like the P. miyabeanum Pacino and it come's true since at least 5 years. Is that also the P. nudicaule? At least there must be a different (extra?) name for both I think, because of their difference in hight and color. Well, that's what I think. But I'm just an amateur. Hope to learn why 2 completely different plants have exactly the same name.
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Dec 22, 2012 2:56 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
We cross-posted. I hope I answered your questions in my post.
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Dec 22, 2012 2:57 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jonna
Belgium, Europe (Zone 6a)
Winter Sowing Sedums Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Belgium Region: Europe
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Salvias Herbs Cut Flowers
Thank you zuzu. When I was making my post, you already answered my question. Thanks!
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Dec 22, 2012 3:00 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Thank you for reminding me to also correct the information for P. 'Pacino.' Smiling
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Dec 22, 2012 3:01 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jonna
Belgium, Europe (Zone 6a)
Winter Sowing Sedums Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Belgium Region: Europe
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Salvias Herbs Cut Flowers
It was Bonitin who moved the picture of the C.rapunculus to C. rapunculoides. Maybe she has a good reason for that. I'm always open to learn from my failures.
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Dec 22, 2012 3:15 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
I think Myriam keeps a watchful eye on the Plant Database and Site Talk forums, so she might respond to this thread. Otherwise, you might have to send her a tree-mail to learn her line of reasoning.
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Dec 24, 2012 11:35 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
GRIN is useful, but not very worldly as it was never meant to encompass all species. I think this will help clear up the Papaver question.
http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPla...
It says P. miyabeanum is an invalid synonym of P. nudicaule var. shimshirense.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Dec 24, 2012 11:57 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Leftwood, I don't see anything in your IPNI link that's more recent than the 2011 ITIS information, listing P. miyabeanum as a synonym of P. nudicaule subsp. nudicaule.

http://www.itis.gov/servlet/Si...

The GRIN info, saying it's a synonym of P. nudicaule, is dated 2001. That's why I changed it to bring it into conformity with the ITIS info.
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Dec 28, 2012 7:44 AM CST
Name: Myriam Vandenberghe
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Frogs and Toads Ferns I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Charter ATP Member Cat Lover Birds Plant Identifier
Hi, Jonna,
Yes, it was my mistake to move your Campanula pictures! Sorry about that! I had moved them in the idea that Campanula rapunculus was a synonym of Campanula rapunculoides until Zuzu told me they are two different plants! Rolling my eyes. They do look extremely similar though!
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Dec 29, 2012 12:37 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jonna
Belgium, Europe (Zone 6a)
Winter Sowing Sedums Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Belgium Region: Europe
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Salvias Herbs Cut Flowers
Hi Myriam,
Thank you for your answer. I was in doubt, because I'm not yet a very experienced gardener, but I was sure the C. rapunculus and C. rapunculoides are different plants. And they indeed look very similar.
I always enjoy your contributions!
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Dec 30, 2012 12:41 AM CST
Name: Myriam Vandenberghe
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Frogs and Toads Ferns I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Charter ATP Member Cat Lover Birds Plant Identifier
Thank you Jonna! Smiling I am not an expert either as you can see Hilarious! I am the most familiar with shadow-loving plants as my small shady town garden doesn't give me much opportunity to grow sun-loving plants, much to my regret!
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