These posts are from other threads I'd like to revisit.

eclayne said:I'm wondering if you can answer a question I asked a while ago about Holly Changing sexes. Three new Blue Prince, I believe Ilex x meserveae 'Blue Prince', were propagated by air layering and are now fairly large. One in particular is loaded with berries in the winter. Can Ilex change sex?

eclayne said:Will cuttings of Holly Blue Prince, maybe Ilex x meserveae 'Blue Prince', change sex and become Princess? I'm thinking that has happened here because one of the old cutting has loads of berries.

eclayne said:Here's a pic of my Prince-ss loaded with berries. I pruned back about 1/3 in the Spring.

I have some questions for you, Evan.

I do not challenge that the image has quite a bit of fruit present. I would like to see more closeups of this plant's parts, and then some general images of the whole plant, its growing conditions and its associates.

I would posit that what you air-layered is not what you thought you air-layered - at least not all of it.

I think I understand you to say that you know of an Ilex x meserveae 'Blue Prince' from which you air-layered several stems, severed them once they were rooted, planted them, watched them grow, and then determined that one propagule has begun to produce fruit. Tell me if any part of that is false.

Do you have pictures of these propagated plants in bloom during any part of their life with you? I would want to see that there were all male flowers on the plants, and that now there are female flowers forming which then set the fruit.

I can theorize a couple ways to arrive at the current condition, but I'd like to hear from you first.

I don't know of an instance where a species of holly like this "changed" sex. I am aware of dioecious species - those that have either male flowers on an individual plant, or female flowers on an individual plant (Ginkgo biloba, for example) - which at some point in their maturity produce the opposite sex of flower on part of the plant, creating an opportunity to pollinate and produce fruit on the same plant. That is not the same as what you may be suggesting is going on with the plant in question.

I can take more photos. Flowers will have to wait though.

I purchased this plant as Holly 'Blue Prince' (that much I remember and that they had 'Blue Princess') in the early 1970's. I didn't know much about plants then and this was a gift to my father. I experimented with air layering several branches and we then severed and panted these. There are now 3 of these clones in the yard as well as the "parent". I remember moving this clone into it's current position, about 20-25' from the parent. No other Ilex on the property and I haven't seen any nearby, but as these are 3/4 acre lots in suburbia there could be. I bought the place several years ago but had always helped dad with the garden. He passed several years ago so no more info. from there.

I'll be particularly observant this spring and try to gather enough photographic evidence. Thanks for helping with my mystery ViburnumValley.

I'm not sure that I've knowingly ever seen a 40 year old Meserve Holly. How big is that fella? Has it ever been pruned? If that plant is still alive, photos of it would be an awesome contribution to the Database. A documentary of its life and "offspring" would make a great article for the Holly Society Journal - I could steer you to appropriate contacts in that regard.

With that additional information, here are two possible scenarios.

1. Somewhere along the time line from initial propagation of the offspring but before the time you moved the one, that original propagule didn't survive and someone (your dad?) replaced it with a purchased female plant - unbeknownst to you.

2. My initial thoughts before you provided further information...it is well-known and not that uncommon for growers/nurserymen to plant a male and female clone of hollies in the same container or field-grown site. This guarantees that both required partners in pollination are present. If this was the situation in your case, you could have layered both male and female branches from the initial installation.

This is why seeing images of flowers is important. It is easy to tell a male holly flower from a female holly flower - the presence of stamens designate the male flower, and the large central green "bump" of the ovary designate the female flower. Examination of all the plants during flowering should yield some answers, although not necessarily a definitive solution to exactly how you arrived at this situation.

Thanks for all the wonderful insights. It wouldn't surprise me at all if my father bought a princess. I remember several great old nurseries around here which no longer exist so it might turn out to be a male and female together.

The prince is alive and well but a shadow of his former self. We planted him in the front, south face, of the house in an L, about 5 feet from one wall and 6 feet from the other. At the time we were worried about him surviving in z5 so gave him a protecting spot. With pruning he filled this space and grew well over my head. I can get a good estimate tomorrow as I remember trying to see out that window and having much of the "view" blocked. In 2010 I pruned him back by half and half again in 2011. I remember being fairly tentative the first time because I wasn't fully convinced about how well and quickly they fill out. Well it was all true.

He's looking a bit odd right now as I didn't prune any of the longer branches, which I usually do for the holidays. I'll look thru my dad's old garden photo's and see what I can find.

Happy New Year!

Your initial question triggered an immersion into holly botany that I haven't enjoyed in quite some time.

I dusted off my weathered copy of Hollies: the Genus Ilex by the late Fred Galle, and read up on Ilex flower morphology and the whole history of Kathleen Meserve's epic hybridization efforts. I'm all aglow.

Sounds like the old Blue Prince has had a workout over the years. Still, having known pretty much its whole life is a tale in itself - and tying it back to fond family memories and other touchstones makes it a compelling story. The mystery of the surprise fruiting just adds spice.

I just ran across this discussion, I too believed hollies were locked either male or female. Several years ago (probably about 10 or more years ago) I noticed a voluntary holly seeding that caught my eye because of it's dark and glossy leaves. It was growing in a bad spot, as it came up on the north side of a big planting of white pines and never got any sun at all. after several years at bloom time I checked on it and was unhappy to learn it was male. Who wants a male holly except for a pollinator. Well anyway the following year I was in the area at about bloom time so I went by to check on it and it had both male and female flowers!. I started asking around my nurseryman friends if they had ever heard of a holly that was monoecious. The next year when I checked it at bloom time it was all female. It has remained female for a number of years now with the heaviest berry set I have ever seen. following this by a few years I spotted another holly seedling that looked promising. It was only about a foot tall but looked to have been heavily sheared and very pyramidal. when it reached flowering age it too was male (and still is) with the heaviest flowering I have ever seen. It grew very slowly until it reached about 3 ft wide by 5 feet high. I thought even though it is male there is a place for it as a specimen plant. However the following year suddenly it about doubled in size going to about 6 ft by 10 ft. So then I wondered if it would not be a great screen plant. Since then, at least 6 or more years it has grown only a few inches taller while getting wider and a bit more rounded. A couple of nurseries are trying it out. one as field and container grown and the other has just rooted cuttings I gave them. The purpose of all this talk on the second plant is I some years ago rooted about 90 cuttings. I planted a row of them on my property and when they got to blooming size the first one in the row had female flowers. but then seemed to revert back to male. Later I planted another row of eight at another place. after they started to bloom they were of course male. Then a few years later when I checked them seven of the eight had female bloom and the set berries. The following year there was a late freeze and killed the bloom so no berries. Still remains to be seen if they remain female. The purpose of this long article is to say hollies do sometime change sex. At least they have at my place. BTW I am a North Carolina Certified Plant Professional having been the nursery business for most of my life and now at the age of 85 and still growing Sempervivums (More than a hundred varieties) and wholesaling them to local garden centers and nurseries.

Very interesting!
Please come visit our Sempervivum group!
https://garden.org/forums/view...

Thanks, Plantmanager, I Have looked at the Sempervivum site and talked to ValleyLynn. She is the one that convinced me to join the group.

Wonderful! There is a hybridizing clinic coming up the end of April, but I imagine that's at a time when you can't get away.

Follow up on the hollies changing sex post I put on here a while back. Hollies are blooming now in this area and I checked some of the ones mentioned in the earlier post. The second holly I mentioned original plant was and still is male. It was the one that seven of eight planted in one site bloomed female and set a good set of berries year before last. Last year I didn't check as we had a severe cold spell late at bloom time and no hollies had fruit. This year when I checked all eight were blooming male. The first holly I mentioned that went from male to both male and female to all female. I planted seven plants rooted from this plant and this year when I checked six were still blooming female and one was male. Maybe I am being hit by cosmic rays or something. Just wanted to let you know.

What a puzzle!

Well, here's a blast from the distant past!

Recent activity surrounding unknown Ilex promiscuity and altering their egos has resurrected interest in this thread.

Stay tuned...