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Feb 3, 2021 2:32 PM CST
Name: Alice
Fort Worth (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Ponds Sempervivums
I have to plant today, I have to work tomorrow, I'm going by feel on the mix and I went and got new pots and will drill holes in the bottom for drainage and go from there. The old aquarium gravel I used to top my other semps is actually pea gravel that was in an aquarium for 20 years and kind of shrunk down over time. I got more chick grit while I was out, and I have yet to open the bag of organic miracle gro and smell it. It got dark and it got late last night. It's warm today and I am off. I will see how it goes, the organic miracle gro is very fibrous and does contain coir and yucca
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Feb 3, 2021 4:55 PM CST
Name: Alice
Fort Worth (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Ponds Sempervivums
I don't whether to water so for now, I am not, the soil mix is just barely damp. Temps outside in the 70s and the air is pretty dry. I like the texture of the mix, loose, sandy, but not just sand and grit
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Feb 3, 2021 10:26 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Container Gardener Garden Art Sempervivums
Sounds like you've got a handle on it Alice.
I used to water my semps in after planting but I don't do that anymore. Now before I plant I soak them briefly in water to rehydrate after shipping and increase contact with the soil, then I don't water the soil.

My understanding is watering them in gets them established faster but encourages rot at a time when they are particularly susceptible. I think it's safer to restrict/regulate water while the plants are getting established, though the soil shouldn't be completely bone dry. Sometimes I crack open a bag of potting soil and the stuff doesn't have a drop of water in it, it's overly fluffy and moisture resistant, doesn't seem like that'd be a good way to start out any plant.
-Sol
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Feb 3, 2021 11:04 PM CST
Name: Alice
Fort Worth (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Ponds Sempervivums
I didn't rehydrate them, didn't know, I did put them in very slightly damp potting mix and put some gravel on top. If I were going to water I would think in the morning would be better, Just a little on each plant, not soaked with the hose. They were on my porch, in shade, in cool weather, in their little paper bags for 2 days while I got dirt together. I didn't plan on working all last weekend plus yesterday. I still don't have the pumice, it comes tomorrow but I'll be working. I'll probably water them a little before I leave, some did look pretty dry. I drilled the pots and used old aquarium gravel in the bottom, the ugly mixed up stuff


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Feb 3, 2021 11:55 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Container Gardener Garden Art Sempervivums
They look good!
I'm sure they'll be fine Alice, pumice or no. Weather in Texas seems to be pretty mellow this time of year, and despite all this discussion's focus on how best to grow them, sempervivum are pretty tough plants.
I don't use gravel at the bottom of my pots, I've read that it actually does the opposite of what most folks think. Instead of quickening the drainage process it actually slows it by creating larger pores at the base of the pot, and because water molecules like to stick to each other, those larger pores actually encourage the water to remain higher in the pot for longer. In this theory, you want your largest particles on top and the finer ones on the bottom. Though "gravel mulch" is a piece of this theory that is widely accepted, continuing the water wicking pattern of largest to smallest from top to bottom is rarely practiced by gardeners below the top layer of substrate. Once again, not a big enough deal to go tearing apart your well thought out and attractively executed planters, but something to consider for the future. I've heard some pushback to this theory, but it seems to make sense to me. Scientifically, the model is likened to a rectangular sponge full of water, the sponge is obviously full of small pores, but the space around the perimeter of the sponge can also be thought of as a set of larger pores, the widest of which is the flat long side of the sponge, if held so that the largest side of the sponge faces the ground, it will retain water longer, however if the sponge is held sideways so the side with the smallest area is facing the ground, the water will run through it more quickly. Thus the finer pores being at the bottom of the pot would cause a faster movement of water by wicking it out of the soil molecularly. You don't want to clog the exit's by using particles so fine water can't pass through them, but short of this the theory holds true. Often I mix a separate soil for the bottom layer of my pots with more sand and less gravel, not that it's an absolute necessity.
-Sol
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Feb 4, 2021 12:41 AM CST
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Hydrangeas Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator
Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan
When you water you might lay an ice cube next to each plant. That way you don't over water. I do that with my indoor succulents.
Sempervivum for Sale
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Feb 4, 2021 8:42 AM CST
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Alice,

In contrast to Sol, I ALWAYS use a little half strength Quick Start on newly planted semps. They have to make new roots and I find the Quick Start REALLY helps with that aspect of semp culture. I would also give them a boost of the same strength Quick Start in ~ a month to help them on their way, as they need an extra boost to start making offsets.

Because the N is low it doesn't seem to induce excessive soft growth, but rather a sustainable growth. My seedlings get this same treatment every other week for 4 months and I don't see a bit of rot in them. I tucked 3 cultivars that were tiny plants given to me last spring and they hae done great too, so it's not just seedlings that benefit. In your climate I would probably not continue the treatments beyond April.

Kevin
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Feb 4, 2021 9:15 AM CST
Name: Alice
Fort Worth (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Ponds Sempervivums
I'll see about Quick Start on my way home today. I had a quart of rain water and that did all the semps, just a little dribble on each, wind is up this morning so it will evaporate any extra.
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Feb 4, 2021 12:53 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Container Gardener Garden Art Sempervivums
Alice/Kevin,

I water in with quick start during the spring plantings, didn't know it was a good idea to do it in the winter, but it is after all labeled as a "transplant fertilizer". I got the idea to soak the semps before planting from Kevin's book, I think there's mention of Sandy or Polly doing that with semps that have dehydrated during shipping. It's worked for me so far. If I have plants that really suffered from a particularly long shipment, I'll also treat them with 2 in 1 disease and pest prevention, it can be generously applied and is also supposed to toughen up the plants. Allegedly it also helps them become established, in cases where I'm potting up a rare plant I pull all the stops and use both the 2 in 1 and quickstart, sometimes I even dip the roots in rooting hormone. I've had some things shipped from far away that have arrived half dead, proud to say this sort of overcompensation of treatments paired with strict watering regiments has brought a few of them back from etiolated, dehydrated, pieces of yard debris.
-Sol
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Feb 4, 2021 10:13 PM CST
Name: Alice
Fort Worth (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Ponds Sempervivums
I have rooting hormone but they are all planted and I think unless they start to look bag I won't dig them up. I totally forgot Quick Start and everything else, long day, dragged in about sunset. None looked too bad when I got home, our temps are pretty mild right now though. Upper 30s tonight
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Feb 5, 2021 5:15 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Container Gardener Garden Art Sempervivums
Alice,
I bet they'll do well just the way you've planted them.
-Sol
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Feb 5, 2021 10:00 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
I agree
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Feb 5, 2021 1:17 PM CST
Name: Alice
Fort Worth (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Ponds Sempervivums
4 or 5 look really dry today, the air is dry and we have a cold front coming in. I have to go run around today, will hold off on dunking in water for a bit until I get advice. but they don't look all that good
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Feb 5, 2021 1:51 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Container Gardener Garden Art Sempervivums
Yeah I wouldn't go disturbing the soil just to hydrate them. At this point your looking to minimize stress on the plants. You can always follow Kevin's advice on watering them in with a transplant fertilizer, that'd give them a bit to drink and possibly help them develop some new roots. Your always safer with them being on the dry side anyways though, rot can't really move in unless their wet, so I wouldn't soak them too hard.
-Sol
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Feb 5, 2021 4:02 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Alice, can you give us an up close photo?
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Feb 5, 2021 11:23 PM CST
Name: Alice
Fort Worth (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Ponds Sempervivums
I will get a closeup photo in the morning of the ones I am concerned on. I got in almost at dark again. So much for being off.... I can pick up Quick Start tomorrow. It was a tough week. Work photo this week just wasn't pretty. It is better now.
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Feb 6, 2021 3:23 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Container Gardener Garden Art Sempervivums
One of the toughest parts of workin a job is being away from your garden.
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Feb 6, 2021 10:52 AM CST
Name: Alice
Fort Worth (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Ponds Sempervivums
indeed, and I am spoiled, my work is seasonal, unfortunately the season is the best gardening weather.

here are my concern pics. Both "Happy" look unhappy, except for them I'm not sure what variety these are. I only photographed one Happy. I am afraid I was too close on the first 4, last one looks about right for focus, but I have to go see a customer. Thanks for looking.
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Last edited by Gypsi Feb 6, 2021 10:54 AM Icon for preview
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Feb 6, 2021 11:28 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
They look healthy, just need to clean up the old leaves. The bottom rows and the oldest leaves, they eventually die and need to be taken off. I usually do it when I get them, remove the old leaves before planting.
I would also replant them. Separate the rosettes, clean them and replant. In no time at all they will take off growing and look wonderful.
Did you make name tags for them?
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Feb 6, 2021 12:14 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Container Gardener Garden Art Sempervivums
Alice,
Most semps "hunker down" for the winter, they tighten up into compact forms and shed outer leaves. It's nothing to worry about. Did you get your semps from mountain crest gardens? If so you might want to remove some of the peat from around the roots in the future. I've planted them without doing that and they're usually fine, it's just that the substrate they use to bulk them up in the mountain crest greenhouse is meant to absorb fertilizer quickly under controlled conditions and can hold too much moisture in an outdoor setting.

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