Sounds like fun! Keep good records. If there are some you don't know what they are; post a picture--someone here will know the cultivar (name).

Too early to be able to ID, but just to show what state they're in (and unfortunately, also my unweeded beds!)

Pink lilies from Wal-Mart promoting Breast Cancer Awareness in a bed infested with red sorrel.



Easter lilies



GIGANTIC lily from a friend (this has really multiplied!

Roosterlorn said:But Trumpets, Orientals, and Asiatics are a good starting point from a knowledge base stand point because most modern day commercially available lilies are hybrids based on those three groups. From there you can easily expand your knowledge a little at a time by association because almost everything you're going to run into today will have the word Trumpet, Oriental, or Asiatic in it somehere in the description.

From there and along the way, you'll pick up little pointers here and there like:

The Trumpet group is generally thought of as the most fragrant group, tall and that make good long stem cuttings.
The Asiatic group is thought of as the most colorfull group and earliest to bloom but generally not fragrant.
The Oriental group is thought of as the late blooming group with lush foliage and fragrance.

You'll pick up other little pointers too, like: lilies prefer a sandy, loamy type soil somewhat high in organic matter that has good drainage (lilies don't like wet feet). They withstand dry periods well. They never really go truely dormant but require a rest period called a chill (winter season) to produce a high bud or flower count the following year. Avoid using fresh animal manure as a sourse of organic matter. All kinds of little pointers, and you'll find it all here as we move along throughout the seasons.

We would be delighted to hear your comments and suggustions as we move along as well; and not necessarily limited to lilies either. Many of us grow a variety of flowers in beautifull garden arrangement settings so we always like to know 'what goes good with what'. For us, lillies are just central to it all.

I wouldn't say ALL lilies need a winter chill. It never gets below 40 degrees here and if it ever does it's only for a couple of hours at 3AM. I don't lift my bulbs in the fall and they do just fine.

I read through Lorn's post twice, and I don't see any mention of temperature.

But the rest period is often call a "chill" because (for 98% of the world's lilies) it coincides with the colder winter season.

Yes, and NW15, your winter season of low temperatures in the 40'sF during the winter season rest period is enough of a 'chill' so to speak, to produce good blooming with most lilies.. I think I misled you into thinking I was refering to the standard 400 hrs at 33'-34'F that the cut flower industry uses called 'forcing'. Heck, I talk to people in New Orleans who grow LA's and OT's beautifully. And people I know in Orlando that love their OT's I gave them. I don't think that anyone can clearly difine exactly what a winter chill rest period should be in terms of time and temperature and it quite possibly would be different for each Division depending on that Division's heritage location, and even from cultivar to cultivar within that Division for that matter. The fact that your Asiatics diminish over time may be climate related in this respect but is more likely due to higher than desirable soil pH . With your Orientals, soil pH may be more the culprit because they definitely like their lower pH. And, you're not the only one California I've heard of that find growing Asiatics and Orientals a real challenge. Those LA's you show in your last picture look like they are ready to show buds! Beautiiful!!

Ah ok. I was thinking you meant chill as in cold weather not resting period. I've given up on Asiatics and Orientals here. The LO's in my last pics still have a little time before they show buds. I can't even see the buds when I look in the top of the plant yet. I'm thinking they'll be around 5 feet tall this year.And the green sprout in the second picture I said was an OT is actually an LA! The one I thought was Satisfaction popped up today mixed in with a bunch of little leaves from bulblets.

NW15--sorry if I confussed you a little. I have a question about your Orientals: when do you notice that the bulbs have turned to mush---in the Spring after they fail to come up? I'm curious to know that for my own knowledge base.

Well, I would plant them in the fall, they would sprout in the spring and would only grow about 8 inches tall if that. They would give one or two buds that were really small and after the plants themselves turned yellow I would dig them up to see what was wrong and the would be rotting away. My other lilies given the same conditions would be just fine.

Very good description of Basil Rot. What happens is the core shoots up stem, some leaves and a few buds as it consumes whatever stored energy it can obtain from the few remaining good scales and after that is gone, it's over. There are two types of fungus that can cause bulb rot, both are soil borne. One is Fursarium Oxysporum which is fairly common in soils of North America The other is Cylindrocarpon. This fungus is more prevalent to European soils, especially Holland (where many bulbs come from). It is most likely that one or both of these fungi came into your garden on a 'dirty' (invisably unclean) contaminated bulb. Both fungi enter thru a damaged root system, damage basil or even a damaged scale, typical of newly planted bulbs. While Fusaruim is the primary pathogen and Cylindrocarpon the secondary; they act in unison. Both of these fungi are spread by spores thru the use of everything from bulb farming equipment, packaging or even your own garden tools and can remain in the soil without a host for several years. It is generally thought that Asiatic types are more susceptable to Basal Rot while Trumpet types are quite resistant to it. Orientals are thought to be somewhat resistant, but still susceptable to it in warmer climates of North America, especially if there is a warm and/or wet winter season or in the North, a warm summer with plenty of water. This could possibly explain why your Orientals turn to mush in spite of repeated planting and your Trumpet types are doing just fine

Unfortunately, all of the best soil borne fungi fungicides have been taken off the market for home gardeners. What I've been doing now is powdering down a copper base fungicide on the soil surface and watering it in well just when the first sprouts appear and follow up again with a good drenching spray when the ground gets much warmer. I think it works OK--for me anyway. In the areas where your Orientals are failing, I would mix in a copper base fungicide pretty deep--as much as 12 inches--and plant another Oriental--see what happens. And be sure not to fertilize with something of high nitrogen which produces soft, rapid bulb growth that contributes to bulb vunerability to infections--and avoid putting fertilizer in the hole when you plant and don't over water even during a hot dry spell

Maybe I'll give that a try. I have planted orientals at a friend's house before and the same thing has happened. The orientals die and the others do just fine. Same thing happened with people across the street from me. Perhaps the fungus could be present there as well.

I thinks it's a combination of your warmer winter season which coincides with you wettest months (Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar) and the soil borne fungi. The bulbs get all 'juiced up' over winter making them softer and less dense and more vunerable. Then just as the Spring weather warms up, the fungi become much more active within the roots they entered the fall before and attack the basil. Just thinking here, I'm wondering if late Spring planting would work better (with your soil pretreated with a fungicide). At least you'd have well established bulbs with maximum defense going into the winter rainy season, especially if you followed up with a spray treatment or two during the summer.

Of course, the obvious thing before you do any of the above, is make sure you have excellently draining soil. You might even think about placing a waterproof plastic sheet over that area of the garden to keep winter rains off. Be sure to cover it with a mulch or something that will keep the sun from heating the soil under the plastic. If you don't practice basic guidelines for the plants in question, you have doomed yourself to a lifetime of pesticide use.

Well, let's assume that all three practice pretty good gardening techniques so then, let's bring in another controllable entity into the picture and that is soil pH.

But first, let me say, NW15, that I have been to your area several times (Aneheim and areas south and east of you) and I spent a lot of off time strolling city and county parks as well as driving up and down many residential streets looking at peoples lawns and flowers. And the soil seems to be quite sandy with pretty good drainage--which is good. And temperature over 90'F are a rarity. Further, there's often a slight marine haze in the air which filters the sun so the ground temperature's don't get terribly hot. These are all good things that work in your favor. I won't mention how much time I spent in all those good coffee and doughnut shops you have in your area.

Now, let's talk about pH. We all know that most all lilies do their best in a soil that's slightly acid--a pH somewhere less than 7.0. This produces nice healthly bulbs. Asiatics and Orientals, especially, need this lower pH. Trumpet types can tolerate a slightly higher soil pH but they, too, would benefit with a pH slightly less than 7. California has a reputation for having a high soil pH, as do sandy soil types. So growing big healthy bulbs is a bulbs best defense against many things. When you say your Asiatics languish in a downward spiral over a period of three or four years seems to indicate your soil pH is high, while at the same time your OT's do just fine--they would, as expected. So if you could, get your garden soil pH checked and if it's running a little high, as I suspect, bring it down a little gradually by adding Sulfur Crystals or Calcium Sulfate (but not Aluminum Sulfate)

Now, I suppose it could be said that I contradict myself in the case of Fusarium fungus and Basal Rot when I suggest lowering the pH. And that's because in doing so, one is creating a somewhat more favorable environment for the fungi because they like a more acid environment. But the facts are, they will affect a damaged or unhealthy bulb regardless of pH when they are present in the soil. And going full circle with this, you can see that both Orientals and fungi like the same soil pH conditions. And that's where good proactive measures of fungicides comes in handy.

If you correct your soil conditions and use fingicides successfully, your neighbor and friend should do the same. If they don't, then refrain from trading plants until they do. And always be aware of the fact that you do have these wet, winter seasons when good drainage is crucial as Leftwood mentioned.

NW15, if you decide to use a fungicide, I've posted a picture of those I use here--so at least you'll have some idea of what to look for and maybe make it easier to spot on a shelf while shopping. I don't promote any company here, only name them. All three are made be Bonide Products, inc. The one on the left is a liquid copper base that I use as a proactive spray against Botrytis, another dangerous above ground pathogen. The tall bottle in the center is a copper base powder version of the one one left and the one I sprinkle on the ground in early Spring. I also use this one to lightly dust my bulbs before planting and sprinkle a little around the hole or row as I plant. The one on the right is a non copper base powder fungicide that I use interchangably with the copper base powder but most usually use this one to powder my bulbs and also add it to my soil mix to prevent Damp-Off, not only for lily seed sprouts but any other vegetable or flower seed sprouts that's prone to Damp-Off. All this might sound like a lot of extra work but really, it's not when spread out over the course of a year. And, I've always found the easiest way to deal with fungi and deseases is to prevent them in the first place.

My soil drains fine during the winter, the house protects the area where the lilies are from getting too much rain and they are planted on a slope so whatever does get a good soaking drains out pretty fast. If drainage were an issue I would think all of my other bulbs would have rotted too. I am thinking my soil PH is probably quite high though. I remember trying some OA's a few years ago and they did really bad here. Asiatics usually last about a year. Some turn a blackish red color and die after blooming. Perhaps this could be a sign of high PH? I think I'm going to try a dwarf oriental in a Pot with some soil from my yard and raise the PH and use some copper fungicide and see what happens. Now if only I could get the lily pad to ship my order...

NW15 said:. If drainage were an issue I would think all of my other bulbs would have rotted too.

I agree with your assessment that drainage doesn't seem to be the issue, but...

that all lily bulbs have the same tolerances to moisture (or other environmental factors, fro that matter) is an erroneous assumption. It might seem logical, but when you think about it, why would a lily native to a high and dry alpine region be the same as one native to a lowland wet meadow? Of course, they are not.

NW15--near the very end of your last post you mention using your own soil and "raising the pH". I think you mean "lowering the pH" (don't you?). Now, if you use the powdered version of the fungicide, the instructions do not include recommended mixes for Lilies like they do for Begonias and Glads, etc.--not common enough to print I guess. So, us lily people have to use our best judgement. I aways approach any soil treatment with the thinking that 'less is better than more'. With the powdered fungicide I show in the picture, I use two level teaspoons per gallon size pot and mix thoroughly. You'll be using larger pots so adjust accordingly. Remember that a gallon size pot is not the same size as a gallon we usually think of, like a gallon of milk, etc. It is smaller. I use the same philosophy of 'less is better than more' approach when applying a soil acidifier.

You could dust the bulb, but that's optional since you're treating the soil. Don't use any compost in the pot where it will come in contact with the roots and bulb, but rather add it to the top and let the rain or your watering soak the nutrients down. This compost will also serve as a mulch to keep the roots and bulb cooler. Once growth begins, add a little low nitrogen fetilizer as a top dressing and you are on your way to growing beautiful dwarf Orientals in pots.

Just curious, if you don't mind me asking: What's your experience been like with the Lily Pad? I remember I ordered from them a few years ago and at that time I was very pleased with everything. Just Curious. you could send me a Tree Mail if your unconfortable with posting.

haha yeah I totally meant lowering the PH I guess I was just envisioning what I was going to be doing while I was typing I will be giving that I try as soon as I can get my hands on some Orientals! I dont mind you asking at all! And I would rather share here so that others that are thinking of purchasing from the lily pad may see as well. I've ordered from them in the past and the bulbs I got were large and healthy! Actually larger than what I was used to getting from B&D. Only problem I had was when I ordered some Midnight trumpet lilies a few years ago I got some white trumpets instead. Now on to this year, I ordered some OT's Invasion, Palazzo, Flashpoint, and a Conca D' Or back in February and on the website it says that they will begin shipping March 1st. I got a call from them 2 weeks ago saying they were going to be shipping my order. Still hasn't gotten here. They haven't even charged my card for it yet. I sent them an email asking if they could tell me when they were going to ship my order and I never got a reply.

Thanks for sharing your experience with The Lily Pad. I, like everybody else, like to keep up with what's going on with our sources, but for some reason had totally forgotten about them since the last time I ordered--which like I said, was quite a while ago. I know at one time they were heavily involved with the forcing and cut flower industry; Do you know if they're still doing that as well? Anyway, you should be getting your order any day now, I would think. You made some nice choices.

Here are some dwarf Orientals that I use for potted patio plants. They seem to be hardy as the dickins and I'm very satisfied with them. Entertainer--pink, Free choice--white, After Eight--(Stargazer look alike), Souvenir--soft pink, and a couple of the Sonny Bonaire Series in light pink. All, very fragrant. I was putting a little bamboo stake down the middle in each pot just in case I needed it, but these were so sturdy, I ended up pullin' them out. Gosh, they put on a lot of flowers for such a small plant--and they're portable too. Sometime my wife will take one or two off the patio and place in her garden and they blend right in nicely.

I was going to mention also (since I don't like using up all my good garden soil) that most often, I use Schultz's Garden Soil for my potted lilies. That's Garden Soil--not potting soil, available at almost any big box garden center and cheaper than potting mix which I avoid. It has a good buffered pH level that I haven't found a need to adjust downward. You might want to try that too. It ended up being much handier for me and in your case, you would'nt have to worry about introducing any possible suspect fungi that you may have in your garden soil. Just a thought.

I have no idea if they are still involved with that. I doesn't say anything on their website. I hope so I have some empty spots in the front yard saved just for those bulbs! I might want to get entertainer or after eight. I like the red/pink colors the most. I'll have to look for the Schultz's Garden Soil. A lot easier than having to adjust soil PH and whatnot!